07.18.23 HR Meeting Minutes - FINALHEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
TUESDAY, JULY 18, 2023
HYBRID FORMAT IN PERSON AT AVON TOWN HALL AND VIA ZOOM
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES, JULY 18, 2023 PAGE 1 | 7
1. ROLL CALL
Present- Committee Members: Committee Chair Kevin Hyatt, Committee Vice Chair Pat Nolan and Committee
Members, Kathy Ryan, Nancy Tashman (virtual), Lisa Post, Pam Warren (virtual)
Staff: Recreation Director Michael Labagh, Aquatics Superintendent Kacy Carmichael, and Recreation Services
Superintendent Jerrica Miller, Town Manager Eric Heil
Town Council: Councilor RJ Andrade, Councilor Ruth Stanley (virtual)
Absent- None
Committee Chair Kevin Hyatt opened the meeting at 10:06 a.m.
2. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA
Committee Member Kathy Ryan motioned to approve the agenda, Committee Vice Chair Pat Nolan seconded the
motion to approve the agenda. Recreation Director Michael Labagh declared the agenda approved.
3. APPROVAL OF THE MAY 2023 MEETING MINUTES
Committee Member Kevin Hyatt made a motion to approve the minutes from the May 16, 2023 meeting and Committee
Member Kathy Ryan seconded the motion. Recreation Director Michael Labagh declared the minutes approved.
4. PUBLIC COMMENT
No public comments were made.
5. BUSINESS ITEMS
5.1 Recreation Department Update
Recreation Direction Michael Labagh provided an update on admissions revenues, average daily visits and explained
that the month of May was a little lower attendance than last year due to the partial pool closure and the steam room
and sauna remodel. June was a rainy month, bringing people inside so we saw increased admissions revenue
comparing 2022 to 2023. Recreation Director Labagh shared before and after images of the steam room and sauna to
show the results of the remodel, and told the Committee that staff are happy with how it turned out. Great work from the
facilities team and contractor led to this success.
The new Technogym cardio equipment installation is complete. Patrons have shared compliments to staff that the
machines are uniform and easier to use. Staff currently offer an Adult Fitness Orientation once a month and will now
add a cardio equipment orientation as well.
Recreation Services Superintendent Jerrica Miller shared that the summer day camp is full and busy, with
increased capacity of 50 children per day. Families on waitlists are contacted automatically by email and the response
time is not always quick, so the day camp has not had a full roster of 50 children yet. Field trips are scheduled on
Tuesdays and Thursdays and are capped at 30 children because of transportation limitations. Pickleball has been busy
with programs and drop-in play. Staff are looking forward to holding another outdoor basketball tournament at the end
of the Summer.
Aquatics Superintendent Kacy Carmichael provided an overview of the Aquatics programs taking place this
Summer including the indoor Recreational Swim Meet, Dunk-N-Dash competitions on Mondays, and Open Water Swim
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
TUESDAY, JULY 18, 2023
HYBRID FORMAT IN PERSON AT AVON TOWN HALL AND VIA ZOOM
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES, JULY 18, 2023 PAGE 2 | 7
sessions on Thursdays. She reminded the Committee of upcoming special events at Nottingham Lake such as Sunset
SUP on July 28 and the Open Water Swim Championships on August 12. Lifeguard training will be offered August 7 -11
to continue staffing efforts for Fall. Youth Group Swim Lessons have doubled the number of offerings in the summer
with morning classes, evening classes and Saturday mornings. Offerings have also been increased for Parent and
Infant as well as Parent and Toddler swim classes. Swim team as usual is taking home trophies and qualifying for
prestigious competitions. Three swimmers qualified for Sectionals, one for Senior Zones and one for Futures, which are
national level swim meets.
The Committee commented/inquired:
A. Committee Member Nancy Tashman inquired if the new cardio equipment arrived in May or June? Attendance still
increased in June even with a partial closure?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied saying in June the cardio equipment was installed and due
to strategic, partial closure, the fitness area was still usable during the installation.
B. Committee Member Kathy Ryan inquired if reports could be provided to show how many people use the pool vs.
fitness areas. It would show what amenities are of importance to the community.
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied that staff take patron counts (attendance) on a regular
basis, and he sees value in providing that data.
C. Committee Vice Chair Pat Nolan commented saying the new cardio equipment looks great.
D. Committee Chair Kevin Hyatt stated he has heard lots of compliments while at the Recreation Center. He also said
the cardio equipment looks great.
E. Committee Member Kathy Ryan inquired why we are not concerned about children swimming in the middle of the
lake?
a. Aquatics Superintendent Kacy Carmichael replied that lifeguards are present at the lake during open
water swim programs, but not on daily surveillance duty.
b. Recreation Director Michael Labagh added that enforcement of the lake rules is currently the
responsibility of Town of Avon Police Department/Community Response Officers.
5.2 Recreation Department Cost Recovery and Program Subsidy Plan
Recreation Director Michael Labagh provided an overview of the meeting goals for the Committee to understand current
cost recovery practices, Town’s Vision, Culture Statement, and Mission Statement. Recreation Director Michael
Labagh explained historical data for the Recreation Department cost recovery.
The Committee commented/inquired:
A. Committee Member Nancy Tashman commented that she is colorblind and cannot see the PowerPoint text
because of the lack of color contrast.
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh thanked her for the feedback so he can adjust for the next meeting.
B. Committee Member Kathy Ryan inquired if Recreation Director Michael Labagh could define subsidy practices and
subsidy level?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied saying that in the past cost recovery initiatives have been
inconsistent in the past and staff are taking this opportunity to formalize the effort. He also explained to
Kathy that subsidy level refers to the amount of money (percentage) that the Town allocates toward a
program or service that is valued in the community.
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
TUESDAY, JULY 18, 2023
HYBRID FORMAT IN PERSON AT AVON TOWN HALL AND VIA ZOOM
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES, JULY 18, 2023 PAGE 3 | 7
C. Committee Member Kathy Ryan asked if subsidy means money?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied that yes subsidy means money, staff time, or discounts for
certain groups.
b. Town Manager Eric Heil shared that in Steamboat Springs they had an extensive presentation on cost
recovery and subsidy policy including different levels of cost recovery. The Town has leaned toward 100%
cost recovery, and done well to achieve it, which is unusual. The Recreation Center is also a community
center and doesn’t need to function like a high profit business. Staff are looking at industry standards to
look at potentially less than 100% cost recovery for some areas if it provides a valuable service to the
community.
D. Committee Member Kathy Ryan inquired if the Recreation Center is charging for individual classes?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied no, but that has changed several times.
E. Committee Member Kathy Ryan asked what is being subsidized? Yoga?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh explained staff are working with non-profits such as Small Champions
to provide discounts.
F. Committee Member Kathy Ryan asked if the Recreation Center charges for Zumba class?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh it depends on how you look at it. Fitness classes could be considered
subsidized because they are included in an admission fee.
G. Committee Member Lisa Post inquired if there are fees outside of day camp or tournaments?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh explained that this is what we would like to discuss later in the
presentation. For example, staff could charge more for Dunk-N-Dash race at 120% cost recovery but also
provide youth swim lessons at less than 100% price recovery.
H. Councilor RJ Andrade inquired what the average cost recovery is at neighboring organizations?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied that he doesn’t have that specific data, but also shared that
Vail Recreation District and Mountain Recreation are very different organizations from the Avon Recreation
Department.
I. Councilor RJ Andrade asked Recreation Director Michael Labagh if he was teaching a college course, what would
be the target cost recovery?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh referred to the Industry Stats slide for his response and responded that
it depends on the type of organization and organizational mission and goals.
J. Committee Member Nancy Tashman asked about pre-COVID numbers vs. post-COVID numbers? What’s the
explanation for that difference?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh explained that 2017 was close to 99-100% cost recovery, so 2018 and
2019 followed a similar suit. Staff pay has increased significantly, as well as increased maintenance costs.
COVID was disruptive and staff significantly reduced expenses, aiming for 50% cost recovery. Staff are
confident and comfortable that the cost recovery trend is positive since 2021.
K. Committee Member Nancy Tashman, stated she is not an accountant but inquired if there a way to show number of
people served year to year?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied yes, we could use the facility visitation numbers.
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
TUESDAY, JULY 18, 2023
HYBRID FORMAT IN PERSON AT AVON TOWN HALL AND VIA ZOOM
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES, JULY 18, 2023 PAGE 4 | 7
b. Town Manager Eric Heil stated there are three categories of cost have gone up significantly:
i. 50% increase on construction costs (HVAC repair), less trades, people living locally
ii. Keeping good staff is expensive, navigating employer cannibalism. Paying people well has been
successful for retention
iii. Utilities have gone up in cost
iv. For two years in a row Avon Recreation has been named Best Place to Workout, setting a high bar
the Town is proud of. Now that we’ve achieved that, we don’t want to rest on our laurels. We don’t
need to be at a luxury level like the Westin, but we want to be better than a typical government run
Recreation Center.
v. We could be at 100% cost recovery, but it would not be affordable for most of the community.
L. Councilor RJ Andrade inquired what is the cost to the Town vs. cost to the customer?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied that staff have not modeled that out yet.
b. Town Manager Eric Heil stated that if we made it more affordable than it is now, the Recreation Center
would have more capacity issues.
M. Committee Member Kathy Ryan stated that expenses include salaries, maintenance, and construction.
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied yes and explained Capital Improvement Project vs. Capital
Equipment Fund
N. Committee Member Kathy Ryan inquired what is included in the cost? Is revenue what goes into the cash register?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh confirmed her statement and added that revenue comes from program
registration, admissions, merchandise, and facility rental fees.
O. Committee Member Kathy Ryan inquired if the remodel was included?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied that was a Capital Improvement Project and not directly
included in the Recreation Department budget.
Recreation Director Michael Labagh stated staff are proud of the balance found without a formal policy and asked the
committee what makes sense to them for next steps?
A. Committee Member Nancy Tashman stated that Avon has a good reputation for being affordable. Playing
pickleball, she learned other communities make you pay to play. Avon is a friendly atmosphere and she would like
to see it stay that way.
B. Councilor RJ Andrade inquired if the goal is to strive for a hard line to not go below? He would like to see the price
breakdown.
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied yes, we want to maintain a range. For example we need a new
volleyball net system for $5,000, that won’t be an annual expense. Larger, one-time purchases may
fluctuate year-to-year based on the needs of the department.
C. Committee Member Kathy Ryan stated that she yells at the kids hanging on the volleyball net from her porch. If she
knew which activities were most frequented, she would know where to increase the fees.
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh explained our philosophy is not necessarily to raise costs on programs
because they are popular.
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
TUESDAY, JULY 18, 2023
HYBRID FORMAT IN PERSON AT AVON TOWN HALL AND VIA ZOOM
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES, JULY 18, 2023 PAGE 5 | 7
D. Councilor RJ Andrade inquired do we want to raise prices, or do we have to raise prices?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh responded that staff are comfortable with how they are operating now
based on the fee analysis conducted in 2022.
E. Committee Member Nancy Tashman, can we afford to maintain a goal of not hitting 100%?
a. Yes, but that is up to the Town to decide what a comfortable level of subsidy is.
F. Committee Member Pam Warren complimented Recreation Director Michael Labagh saying good job, very
informative presentation. She would like to understand the usage. If things are overprogrammed, would we
decrease the usage? Would it make sense to add or increase a fee for one or multiple programs to adhere to the
cost recovery goal to ensure that the programming does a good job meeting the needs of a vari ety of age groups.
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh thanked Committee Member Pam Warren for her questions and will
address them later in the presentation.
G. Committee Member Kathy Ryan stated she has been a local for 25 years, and she’s a victim of cost recovery. Her
favorite fitness class was eliminated because of low enrollment and never returned.
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh explained the policy for cancelling is 3 or less people enrolled.
b. Recreation Service Superintendent Jerrica Miller added that a low enrollment program may just need to be
re-evaluated and possibly offered at a different day or time.
c. Recreation Director Michael Labagh reminded Committee Member Kathy Ryan staff have to be responsible
for the money allocated to the Recreation Department and to not overspend on services that are not well
attended.
H. Committee Member Lisa Post inquired what is it that we are looking for? An overview, a philosophy?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied yes, exactly. We want to identify what services have what level
of cost recovery. For example, the lobby is free to use. Michael explained Public service vs. Merit Service
vs. Private Services
I. Committee Member Kathy Ryan inquired how are aerobics classes classified? What about senior use of a facility?
What about a birthday party? Is that a merit service?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied saying most programs fall into the merit services, rentals can
be subsidized as well. A birthday party would be a private service.
J. Committee Member Nancy Tashman requested to keep regular fitness classes included in membership/admission.
It would be okay if a specialty class like country line dancing has a separate fee.
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh thanked her for the feedback. Fitness classes promote exercise and
socialization, and we are looking to keep most classes free.
K. Committee Member Pam Warren commented saying it takes pressure off the instructor knowing their class will run.
Recreation Director Michael Labagh explained that we would like to set a cost recovery level for each program. If analyzing
from a department level, the recommended target could be at 65%-80%.
P. Committee Member Lisa Post inquired if programs could have a blend of cost recovery levels?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh replied yes, that is what staff will determine and formalize.
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
TUESDAY, JULY 18, 2023
HYBRID FORMAT IN PERSON AT AVON TOWN HALL AND VIA ZOOM
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES, JULY 18, 2023 PAGE 6 | 7
Recreation Director Michael Labagh explained how staff intend to analyze program fees and admission schedules on an
annual basis and opened the floor up to discussion.
Q. Committee Vice Chair Pat Nolan commented that this is a great idea and right on par with what the Committee
should be focused on.
R. Committee Chair Kevin Hyatt stated we should strive for 100% cost recovery, but it could be good to identify which
programs are costing the Town more.
S. Committee Member Kathy Ryan stated swim lessons are a life skill and is in favor of subsidizing swim lessons for
children and adults.
5.3 La Zona Planning Project Update
Recreation Director Michael Labagh provided a brief overview of La Zona upates. Options 1, 2 & 4 are moving
forward with design. Staff are working with the architects from BRS and with RA Nelson to determine costs. Meeting
next week with BRS and Recreation Staff to adjust and identify cost savings.
The Committee commented/inquired:
A. Committee Chair Kevin Hyatt inquired about the timeline.
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh stated that adapted designs will be complete by the end of August but
construction timeline is yet to be determined.
5.4 Eaglebend Pocket Park Transformation Project Update
Recreation Director Michael Labagh informed the Committee that Town of Avon is the recipient of a GOCO
Community Impact Grant. Working with Eagle Valley Outdoor Movement (EVOM) to engage the community to plan
what to do with Eaglebend Pocket Park. The community has been encouraged to dream big, but there will be
limitations due to the size and location of the park.
The Committee commented/inquired:
A. Committee Vice Chair Pat Nolan and Committee Member Nancy Tashman congratulated the Recreation Staff on
the grant award.
B. Committee Member Kathy Ryan inquired if the park already has water and restrooms?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh said no, not at this time and including those features is yet to be
determined.
C. Committee Chair Kevin Hyatt stated he thinks the park should have lots of trees for shade .
D. Committee Vice Chair Pat Nolan agreed the park should have trees and thanked Committee Chair Kevin Hyatt for
making that suggestion.
6. Other Business and Committee Members
The Committee commented/inquired:
A. Committee Member Kathy Ryan stated the food truck in front of the Recreation Center is very noisy and its’ noise
pollution carries into the Recreation Center and down to the playground. The generator noise makes it less
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
TUESDAY, JULY 18, 2023
HYBRID FORMAT IN PERSON AT AVON TOWN HALL AND VIA ZOOM
HEALTH AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES, JULY 18, 2023 PAGE 7 | 7
peaceful to visit the park. There should be a decibel limit. Why sushi and not Mexican food? Who makes that
decision? Do we subsidize them?
a. Recreation Director Michael Labagh thanked Committee Member Kathy Ryan for her feedback and shared
that other people have also made complaints. The truck has been moved down toward the fire station so
they can plug in to power and not use their generator. Recreation Director Michael Labagh stated that
Food Truck Permits are issued by the Culture, Arts and Special Events Division. He mentioned there is
also a hot dog vendor over by SUPCO boat rentals.
7. ADJOURNMENT
Committee Chair Kevin Hyatt motioned to adjourn, and Committee Vice Chair Pat Nolan seconded the motion. Committee
Chair Kevin Hyatt declared the meeting adjourned at 11:28 a.m.
Respectfully Submitted by
Kacy Carmichael
Aquatics Superintendent