PZC Minutes 061692RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
The regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission was held
on June 16, 1992, at 7:30 PM in the Town Council Chambers, Avon
Town Municipal Building, 400 Benchmark Rd., Avon, Colorado. The
meeting was called to order by Chairman John Perkins.
Members Present: John Perkins, Buz Reynolds,
Sue Railton, Henry Vest,
Jack Hunn, Rhoda Schneiderman
Pati Dixon
Staff Present: Jim Curnutte, Town Planner;
Rick Pylman, Director of
Community Development
Charlette Pascuzzi, Recording
Secretary
All members were present except Sue Railton. Ms. Railton arrived
at 7:�4 PM.
Lot 3 Block 1, Wildridge Subdivision,._Suncrest Condominiums,_
Building Color Change Request Design Review
Jim Curnutte stated that Randy Perry, on behalf of the Suncrest
Condominium Association, is requesting design review approval to
change the color of the four-plex building on Lot 3, Block 1. The
cedar siding would receive a tan tone paint, the stucco would be a
cloversweet white, and the doors, door trim and 3rd floor deck
rails, but not the garage doors, would be a derby green.
CUrnU�te stated that the applicant had color chips for the
Commission review, and that the colors would be applied as an
exterior latex paint.
The applicant provided the color chips for the Commission's
review. It was the general consensus of the Commission tnat the
stucco color would be too bright and should be toned down. The
applicant stated that they had chosen an alternate color, which
was the eggshell color. The Commission felt that this would be a
better color. Discussion followed on the matter of leaving the
garage doors the current dark color. The Commission felt that the
-" .0�%
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 2 of 30
Lot 3, Block 1, W'ildridge Subdiv_is_i_on,_ Suncrest_Condom7.nium,
Building Dolor Chane Request, De- n.Review�_(cont)
garage doors would have to be painted the tan tone.
Patti Dixon moved to approve the color change with the change of
the stucco color from the stark white to the eggsheiI #2H7P, that
the garage doors would be painted the same taupe,# 2M45E, as the
siding, and the trim color would be painted the derby green.
#1D28C, as presented.
Rhonda Schneiderman seconded.
The motion carried with Jack Hunn and John Perkins voting nay.
Holy Cross Electric Association, Line Relocation, SpecialRev,iew
Use Amendment Public Hearing
Rick Pylman stated that in 1987 the Town approved a special review
use request from Holy Cross. He then pointed out on the map
displayed where the Metcalf Road Substation is located (Holy Cross
refers to this as the Beaver Creek Substation). He stated that
there is an existing 69KV line that runs out of this station. He
pointed out where the line runs to the Eagle -Vail Substation. The
approval in 1987 was to upgrade this line to a 115KV line. Holy
Cross has taken another look at their needs. Whac they are really
trying to do is run a second 115KV line into Vail and have changed
their request slightly from what was approved in 1987. They would
like to change the alignment coming out of the substation, taking
it a little further to the north. He pointed this new alignment
out on the map. He stated that it is actually a better visual
condition than what is currently approved. The other change to
the 1987 approval is instead of ,lust upgrading this line from a
69KV to a 115KV, they would like to keep the 69KV to Eagle -Vail
and also run the new line all the way into Vail. He pointed out
what area they would remove the existing 69KV line, where it would
be put on the same poles as the 115KV line. When the dual line
reaches Buck Road, the 69KV line would drop down and go
underground down Buck Creek Road, behind Pizza Hut, along SW1Tt
Gulch Road, up Swift Gulch till it meets the existing line again.
The 69KV will then run down to the Eagle -Vail station and the
115KV will split off and go on to Vail.
Pylman stated that Staff has looked at this and has a couple
concerns and a couple issues that they think need to be addressed.
Staff has not had time to address these and get the answers yet.
Staff is recommending tabling, because they do not feel that this
application is ready for action. Pylman stated that Holy Cross
wanted to go through with the public hearing, therefore he will go
through the issues, as he sees them, that should be addressed, so
that the Commission can understand where the Staff is coming from
on this.
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 3 of 30
,__Special___Review
Pylman stated that with Holy Cross doing some engineering work,
planning work, and construction, the Staff would like to take an
opportunity to work with them to see what could be ir,iproved irl the
Avon area as far as the power lines go. Pylman described the
lines running into and out of the Town. He feels that there are
some opportunities to consolidate some of those. He pointed out
on the map some of the lines that could be consolidated, therefore
allowing for the removal of some of the poles along Metcalf Road,
etc. Pylman stated that another question that has come up, that
they haven't been able to address yet, is that representatives of
the Wildwood/Mountain Star property, who is proposing development
on the Wildwood property, would like to look at what epLions they
have there, for working with Holy Cross to minimize the visibility
of the lines that cross their access roads. He stated that they
haven't had time to come up with answers on that issue yet. What
Staff would like to do is work with Holy Cross and address some of
these issues, see what the costs are, see what kind of
participation we can have, and see if we can't take this
opportunity to clean up every thing we have. While the new
alignment that is proposed is a better visual condition than what
we have, he feels that there are some real opportunities to
improve it all across the board, and he feels that answers are
needed before we can move forward with the proposal.
Pylman stated that, if the Commission feels compelled to make a
decision one way or another, Staff has made all these issues
conditions of approval and feel that they should be conditions for
approval if the Commission feels that they need to act on this
proposal at this time. Again, Staff recommendation is to table
it.
Bob Ballinger stated that Walt Dorman, Richard Brinkly and Johnnie
Kemp are all representing Holy Cross Electric. He provided some
small maps that might be easier to look at. He stated that the
green represents the new 115 second source, the yellow represents
the existing 115 and the orange represents what has been called
the 69KV line. He stated that there is a misconception on this,
that is what the construction is, but it is only a distribution
line running like a 24.4 voltage which is the same which goes
around to all your homes, etc. It is really not a 69KV line at
all. He then proceeded to describe that the power was generated
Hayden and then runs down to Wolcott and to Beaver Creek
Substation, all on a second source line. in other words there are
two transmission lines serving all of that. From this point on it
goes over to Eagle -Vail on a single 115 line. It then goes on
over to Vail Substation. As mentioned before, Avon has looked at
this before, and also Eagle County, but that was dropped for
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 4 of 30
Holy Cross Electric Association, Line Relocation. Special Review
Use Amendment Public Hearing, (cont)_
various reasons, the major one probably was Colorado Ute running
into financial problems. That is now resolved, so they are
trying to move forward. The Forest Service looked at this back in
1987 and asked for an environmental assessment. Anyone involved
had an opportunity to participate in that and give their opinions.
There were a lot of conditions included in that assessment, such
as the landscape of the towers, where they were placed, viewer
conditions from the interstate, from the Town of Avon, from the
ski resorts, etc. This line has 44 PI's which is nine miles long.
That is a lot in power line construction. That had a lot do with
keeping it at different angles so that you could not see a tunnel
like effect. This line would probably be put up and maintained
mostly with helicopters. It will be a steel type construction, so
that the poles will be able to be put together in pieces, so that
a smaller helicopter might carry them. The present 115 line is
wood structures and there are no helicopters in this area that can
deal with that type of weight. The maintenance would be done by
helicopter a minimum of once a year.
Mr. Ballinger stated that this line across the Town of Avon
boundary also crosses two private parcels. In those private
parcels, which goes across Buck Creek, the owners have been
contacted, and Holy Cross will be using the same right-of-ways in
that area. Everything except these two little parcels is on
Forest Service property. Anything that Holy Cross has to go
through a REA work plan, as they call it. That has been done and
approved. They have received their environmental clearances from
the REA and also the financing for the line itself. The cost line
is 3.1 million dollars. There is work at each substation that
would accommodate the line and that would come to another one and
one half million.
Mr. Ballinger reiterated that the 69KV line mentioned is not a
69KV line. it is constructed as such at this time, but is only
used for distribution voltage. The proposal is to underbuild,
called underhanging by Staff. He then pointed out on the maps
where lanes would be located. He stated that they have a verbal
agreement and written, non -recorded agreements with Mr. Nottingham
that if the land, pointed out on the maps, is ever developed by
him, or :anyone he assigns the property to, they will work with him
and underground the distribution line through that area, which
goes over nearly or to the Eagle -Vail Substation. That would
eliminate any overhead construction in that area.
Mr. Ballinger stated that the present 115 line, as mentioned
before, would handle about 100 megawatts worth of load. The
Beaver Creek Substation has a load of about 40 megawatts on it.
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 5 of 30
Holy Cross Electric Association, Line_ Relocation,___Special _Review
Use Amendment Public Hearing,__con
The Avon/Eagle-Vail is about 15 megawatts and the Vail is about 54
megawatts. If there is a transmission line fault, say on the
other side of the line where they had the second source, the
chances are that no one would ever know the difference, because of
the way the connects are made up and the controls in the
substations. If the fault occurred beyond the Beaver Creek
Substation, You would think that the Town of Avon would have no
problem, but loads would then have to be fed with distribution
voltage from this point on, so what would happen is that they
would be able to handle about 1/4th to 1/2 of all the loads with
the distribution line voltages, which means that there would be
some power problems here in Town. He described some past power
outages and their causes.
Chairman Perkins asked Mr. Ballinger if he could specifically
address the concerns that the Staff has. A lot of the data being
presented is kind of going over the Commission's head. He asked
that the applicant focus on the Staff concerns. The Staff has
recommended tabling this item and he for one puts a lot of stock
in what the Staff feels, so please specifically address the
workings that would allow some of these things to perhaps go
underground in Avon. You stated that you would work with Mr.
Nottingham in the future to put his stuff underground, therefore,
why are we rushing into this and will you work with the Town to
put some of our things underground?
Mr. Ballinger stated that they are willing to work with the Town
and give them some ideas, but this line needs to go through. The
costs and stuff, and environmental assessments take time. Their
plan is to go ahead with this line and have these proposals so
that this work could be done later. The have come up with a rough
plan for the possibility of constructing a new line parallel to
this and by doing that he showed on the map where a couple lines
could be taken out. The rough cost to do that is between 600 and
900 thousand dollars. Another option would be to put a second
line over to the 115 line (he pointed out the area on the map and
showed where a line could be taken out at a rough price of 400 to
600 thousand dollars. Total cost of removing all lines describ is
one and a half million dollars. He described some of the costs
involved in not installing this line when the Wildwood area
develops and costs for that area if the line is already in. It
would also require another environmental assessment, etc.
Richard Brinkly, Manager of Engineering for Holy Cross, stated
that the last time they went through this with the Town they gave
exactly the same inf oration to the Town relative to relocating
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 6 of 30
those lines as described. He stated that their position has not
changed today from what it was last time. They are willing to do
that, but it will be at the cost of the Town or whom ever wants to
come up with the money to relocate those facilities. That
facility was built long before the Town, long before the
residential lots. It has a right and if it is moved its just like
it is in any other place in the system, if you want it moved for
whatever reason, its costs will have to be borne by whatever
entity desires it to be relocated. In relationship to the 69
line, and the development of Mr. Nottingham's, that they would put
that line underground, he would like to clarify that in that the
agreement says that they would put it underground in the areas
that he is going to develop. Essentially, what the agreement
says is as we develop, his service would come from that and the
undergrounding would be as part of the development, but it he
doesn't develop certain sections of it, the whole thing would not
disappear.
Mr. Brinkly stated that he would like to address the rest of the
Staff's recommendations. Regarding the necessity of retaining the
existing 69 line, Bob made reference that it is a tie line and it
is a distribution line, not a 69KV line. It is not a transmission
line. It was the original transmission facilities that served
this area, but is no longer used for that and will not be used as
that in the future, it is a distribution line that provides
service to this area. As it deals with the right to use that, and
the reason that they never addressed it before, the right to use
it and build at any distribution facility is covered in their
franchise. He is not sure that the Staff looked at that aspect.
The transmission line is the only aspect that deals with the
special use permit. Any easement, and it also refers to the
additional concerns that the Staff has with the proposed
undergrounding of the 69 line, which is the last one before the
Staff comments. The same thing exists, they are going to use the
utility easement that exists within the development. Those fall
under their right in the franchise to use any and all utility
easements for distribution facilities. He feels that that is an
area that the Staff did not cover and the whole underbuilding and
the distribution facilities has nothing to do with this request.
This request deals with the transmission facilities alone. As it
deals with the undergrounding that has been requested by the
representative of the Wildwood/Mountain Star property, they are
essentially looking at underground costs which cost in the
neighborhood of a million dollars a mile. What they have proposed
is something like a mile and a half, which doesn't even include
special right-of-way needL for a transmission line. You can't
have other things in it. You can't have people digging in those
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 7 of 30
Holy Cross Electric Association�Line_Relocation, Soecial___Review
Use Amendment, Public Hear_in�,_(con�j
right-of-ways. There a lot of things that come with that, in
addition to a tremendous trench and tremendous scaring, which
obviously will not come back in this country. In addition to the
million dollars a mile, it is about 250, 000 dollars on either end
to get the special equipment to convert it from overhead to
underground. If the developer is really interested, they could
get down to the bottom line dollars. If we are in the same boat
that they were in back in 87, then he thinks they are wasting a
lot of peoples time going through a lot of things that, won't come
about and he thinks this should be taken into consideration.
Chairman Perkins then opened the public hearing.
Peter Jamar, representing the partnership that is proposing to
develop the Wildwood Subdivision that has been previously been
subdivided and the revised development plans will be presented
sometime later this summer. He stated that they are not here in
any kind of an adversarial role with Holy Cross and he hoped that
they do not perceive that they are. In fact he thinks that they
had a very positive meeting with Bob Ballinger and Walt Dorman
about a week or week and a half ago. He stated that he is a
little discouraged by Mr. Brinkly's comments of telling them
immediately why some of the things they want to investigate won't
work.
He pointed out, to explain their position, the Wildwood area and
the access road that would service that subdivision, and showed
that there is considerable interference from the existing and
proposed transmission lines. He stated that their whole purpose
in contacting Holy Cross and the Town was really to suggest.
really no proposal, they certainly did not propose any
undergrounding of lines at this point. They proposed merely an
investigation of alternatives to what is currently being proposed
and perhaps the suggestion for some remedial action in terms of
the existing lines of the existing lines that are in place. He
stated that they have been told, unless he had misunderstood, in
the meeting a week or so ago that Holy Cross absolutely had no
capability or experience in dealing with undergrounding power
lines and that is certainly understandable given the rural nature
of the Holy Cross area. They then suggested that, at our expense,
would hire an independent electrical engineer to review what was
being proposed. He thought that the statement that Chairman
Perkins made regarding a lot of this being over our heads was a
good statement. It is very difficult to understand in layman's
terms the exact technical isues related to power transmission. He
understood that Holy Cross really was not even capable with
providing them with any alternatives that dealt with
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 7 of 30
Holy Cross Electric Associations Line Relocation,__Spe_cia_IRev iew
Use Amendment_�ublic Hearing,__Lcont
right-of-ways. There a lot of things that come with that, in
addition to a tremendous trench and tremendous scaring, which
obviously will not come back in this country. In addition to the
million dollars a mile, it is about 250, 000 dollars on either end
to get the special equipment to convert it from overhead to
underground. If the developer is really interested, they could
get down to the bottom line dollars. If we are in the same boat
that they were in back in 87, then he thinks they are wasting a
lot of peoples time going through a lot of things that won't come
about and he thinks this should be taken into consideration.
Chairman Perkins then opened the public hearing.
Peter Jamar, representing the partnership that is proposing to
develop the Wildwood Subdivision that has been previously been
subdivided and the revised development plans will be presented
sometime later this summer. He stated that they are not here in
any kind of an adversarial role with Holy Cross and he hoped that
they do not perceive that they are. In fact he thinks that they
had a very positive meeting with Bob Ballinger and Walt Dorman
about a week or week and a half ago. He stated that he is a
little discouraged by Mr. Brinkly's comments of telling them
immediately why some of the things they want to investigate won't
work.
He pointed out, to explain their position, the Wildwood area and
the access road that would service that subdivision, and showed
that there is considerable interference from the existing and
proposed transmission lines. He stated that their whole purpose
in contacting Holy Cross and the Town was really to suggest,
really no proposal, they certainly did not propose any
undergrounding of lines at this point. They proposed merely an
investigation of alternatives to what is currently being proposed
and perhaps the suggestion for some remedial action in terms of
the existing lines of the existing lines that are in place. He
stated that they have been told, unless he had misunderstood, in
the meeting a week or so ago that Holy Cross absolutely had no
capability or experience in dealing with undergrounding power
lines and that is certainly understandable given the rural nature
of the Holy Cross area. They then suggested that, at our expense,
would hire an independent electrical engineer to review what was
being proposed. He thought that the statement that Chairman
Perkins made regarding a lot of this being over our heads was a
good statement. It is very difficult to understand in layman's
terms the exact technical isues related to power transmission. He
understood that Holy Cross really was not even capable with
providing them with any alternatives that dealt with
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 8 of 30
Holy :ross Electric Association, Line _Relocation_,_ Spec_ialRev iew
Use Amendment. Public Hearing,_,�cont)
undergrounding. Therefore, they proposed, at their expense, and
the Town Staff has since agreed that they would be interested in
expending and sharing those costs, to simply understand what the
options were and what the costs might be. He stated that he
agrees with the Staff that this needs to be tabled tonight and
hjpefully come to some quick determination as to whether there are
are alternatives that can be explored. He stated that they have
heard the same numbers thrown out, that to bury a 115KV line would
be approximately a million dollars a mile. He thinks that it is
more like a half mile that they would be interested in at least
looking at possibly burying in conjunction with their road. When
you look at the cost of a half of a mile being 500,000 dollars, it
will cost them several hundred thousand dollars to build the line
overhead, the net difference to them is somewhere in the range of
about 300,000 dollars. If they can get the line buried somewhere
in that neihborhood, that peaked their interest. They are very
interested in the scheme in a multi-million dollar development
which will be Avon's high end residential oevelopment. That is
certainly within the realm of a cost that they would consider
bearing. Obiviously, until they know all of the costs and
ramifications and whether it is even doable, the whole point is to
just take a little bit of a time out here. They understand that
no one wants to drag their heels and there is clearly an interest
in getting this resolved quickly, but they feel that in the best
interest of, not only their development, but in the long term of
the quality of the Town of Avon, that this is something that will
be with us for a long long time and if there are some
opportunities to even over time, perhaps improve the existing
situation and not repeat some of the things that have happened in
the past, then lets at least know all the alternatives. They
would encourage the Commission to definitely table this and
hopefully it can be worked out. It was his understanding at the
previous meeting th-i.t. Holy Cross was interested in working with us
and understood that it was a good idea to hire some outside help
that had some experience and pro-essional capability at looking at
the feasibility of underground lines.
With no further public input, Chairman Perkins closed the public
hearing.
Chairman Perkins stated that he thinks that this is clearly a
matter that experts need to be discussing. It is a Staff issue at
minimum and probably Staff with consultants. He stated that in
light of the agenda for tonight, he would certainly entertain a
motion to table, however he will hear the Commission comments
first.
PLANNING AND ZONING
June 16, 1992
Page 9 of30
COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
i__speci a l _,. Review
Buz Reynolds agrees that this is something that should be
investigated more. He stated that he was here for the meeting in
1987, and he thinks that there are a few other people in the room
that were here at that time. He stated that he brought up a point
at that meeting of the possibility of building the poles strong
enough that they could be eventually take this line and attach it
to that, through the Town of Avon's cost, (he pointed out the
lines on the map). He stated that at that time he was told that
you try to isolate the two lines separately so that if there was a
lightening strike it would not take two lines down at the same
time. Mr. Brinkly stated that there are two problems. If you put
them on the same structure, essentially, what happens is that they
provide the same service, so you might as well build only one line
because you do not have any reliability and back up if a pole
breaks. Any thoughts of putting two of the lines on the same
structure is not acceptable to Holy Cross from a reliability
issue. Even though it is a construction possibility, it does not
answer the reliability issue. If you put them on different
structures the reliability becomes better. Some parallelinq
already exists, but they are on separate structures. Reynolds
stated that he would like to leave this to Staff and get some
consultants.
Sue Railton agreed, as did Jack Hunn, Henry Vest, Rhoda
Schneiderman, and Patti Dixon. ChairmanPerkins stated that he
would entertain a motion to table this item.
Walt Dorman reminded the Chairman that he had said that they would
have the opportunity to respond. The Chairman asked that he be
brief.
Mr. Dorman stated that they want to get the facility constructed
next year. In approving the alignment, if the developer desires
to come up with the money and it can be worked out, they are more
than willing to see what options and how it lays out. They have
no objections to that. What they want is to get the alignment
approved. If it works out down the road that the money comes in
to cover putting the thing underground, they do not have a big
objection to that. He does not think that is necessarily a
problem in delaying it. They can continue to work with them,
provide that information and come to a decision in three weeks.
At least the process moves ahead. They have a lot of things that
have to be approved and get done before fall comes, to where they
can qet the thing bid and get into construction next year to meet
the Fish and Game requirements and all of those things they have
to meet. They are on an extremely tight schedule and they have
already been put off two weeks because the Staff didn't have
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 10 of 30
things ready to begin with. He then turned to John Kemp, Attorney
for Holy Cross for more comments.
Mr. Kemp apologized for what he is about to do, because Holy Cross
does not like to do business this way. As an attorney it is
distasteful. Especially with all the criticism of attorneys, but
the Staff has left him with no choice. They have completely
misinformed the Commission. They have failed to put the whole
situation in perspective. That perspective is this - We are going
through this process as a courtesy to you, to try to work with
you, cooperate with you. You have no regulatory power over us in
this process". Mr Kemp stated he would explain why. All of the
line except for the portion that passes through this parcel (he
pointed out the parcel on the map) is on Forest Service land. He
stated that he knew that the Commission didn't want a lot of
citations read to them about legal cases, but, he assumed that
this is being taped and your attorney, John Dunn, can check this
out and advise you. Chairman Perkins asked if Mr. Kemp could
possibly speak directly to John Dunn and spare the Commission of
this action now. Mr. Kemp asked to explain. Chairman Perkins
asked him to be brief. Mr. Kemp stated that he would be very
brief. The case he had before hom is called "Citizens for a
better Henderson vs. Hotel (? spelling)". It went to the United
States Court of Appeals. In that case it says any regulations by
a town on Forest Service land has to take back seat to what the
Forest Service does. The Forest Service has already given them a
permit. The County is giving them a permit for this. they are
all set to go. They have a permit from 1987 across that little
piece of private property, they have an easement for it, and they
want to try to work with the town to try to make it as good as
possible, but your Staff hasn't even pointed any of this out to
you. Staff states on the second page of their report, ..to
additional concern of the Staff is the proposed undergrounding of
the existing 69KV line (which Richard has pointed out to the Staff
and to you is really a 25KV line, it is a distribution line) at
Buck Creek. No information has been submitted." He stated that
they have told the Staff that they were going to go through Town
easements in the streets and the regular easements. We have that
right under our franchise with the Town of Avon. There is nothing
here to regulate. We want to work with you. We can't even begin
to come to terms with the Staff as long as it makes
recommendations like it does here which would cost us millions of
dollars in tearing down lines and rebuilding lines. Now if you
have some concerns that they could work with you on, they would
like to do it, tnat is why they are here. He stated that if the
Commission tables this, his recommendation to his client is to
take it as a no vote and to make a formal request to the Council
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 11 of 30
location,_ Special__ Review
to proceed to make a final decision on this it taking your tabling
as a no vote, and if they refuse to act on it, they will just g-)
ahead with it anyway.
Chairman Perkins stated that that is fine, that is their right.
He stated that the Chair would entertain a motion.
Peter Jamar stated that he would like to defend the Staff a bit.
He stated that regarding the 69KV line being a 29KV line, that is
what they have labeled on their maps and reports, so he didn't
think that the Staff has necessarily out to lunch. lie thinks that
they have done a good job following this and he thinks that the
Commission is making the proper decision.
Buz Reynolds moved to table this item.
Henry Vest seconded.
The motion carried unanimously.
ahmark at Beaver Creek Subdivision_,_ Lyon
Is Yard and Soil Storage.,__ Special Review
Use Public Hearing
Rick Pylman stated that there are some drawings on the wall for
the Commission's review. Fie stated that Lyon's Trucks, Inc. is
requesting a special review use to allow outside storage on Lots
14 and 15, Block 1, Benchmark at Beaver Creek Subdivision. That
is the Industrial/Commercial district on Metcalf Road. The area is
zoned industrial/commercial and as a special review use,
contractor's yards and outside storage are allowed. The use, as
requested, states that they would store six commercial vehicles,
including front end loaders, and dump trucks. There would be an
office trailer and storage of up to 500 yards of soil. An area
between the storage use and Metcalf Road would be bermed to screen
visibility of the site. The Staff has reviewed the application
and has some concerns. There are three criteria for review of a
special review use application. He stated that the proposed use
is in compliance with all other requirements imposed by the Zoning
Code. Regarding the conformance with the Town's Comprehensive
Plan, The Metcalf Road subarea description identifies this area as
a major entrance to the Wildridge Subdivision and recognizes some
problems with the visual quality of the development that is going
on there, some of the type of uses that exist there. One of the
goals of the Comprehensive Plan states that a high quality visual
image of the Town is established through both public and private
sector activities. Objective "E" of that goal states "improve the
appearance and image of the service district along Nottingham and
Metcalf Roads, through enhanced design, screening of activities
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 12 of 30
and landscaping". Again, as the entrance to Wildridge, this part
of Town is critical in the way it develops out. That is why we
are trying to get rid of the power lines that run through there.
We have some good, strong development going on in Wildridge and
the appearance of Metcalf Road is very important and Staff is
concerned about the way this application is presented and the way
the use is structured. There are some contractor's vard that
exist in that area now and one of them presents a very poor image
and Staff is working to try to clean that up. The others are
screened behind buildings and fences and are not as objectionable.
Staff does not believe this request is compatible since, only a
trailer is proposed as an office, there is no building being
proposed on the site and he thinks that this goes against the
typical development in that zone district where the primary use
occurs in buildings, warehouse use, light manufacturing uses, even
the storage uses that occur over there is occurring in buildings.
Staff has some concerns with the outside storage of soil and
stormwater runoff, erosion and dust problems that can be created
through that storage, as well as general unsightlyness of it.
Looking at the zone district, looking at the proposal, Staff
thinks that not only is this proposal not strong enough itself, it
is not screened well, it is not landscaped well, but the use is
pretty heavy for what they look at as a light industrial district.
Staff is encouraging uses to occur within buildings and good
quality architecture and not outside storage of heavy equipment
and soil. Staff recommendation is for denial as this is
proposed.
Rick Travers, representing Lyons Trucks, stated that they do
realize that this a sensitive area as the entrance to Wildridge,
and they want to make this an attractive project. They stated
that they are very willing to work with the Commission and the
Staff in order to construct appropriate berming, fencing,
landscaping, to make this an attractive addition, considering it
being an industrial/commercial zoned area. He stated that he
wanted to stress that this is an allowed use under the commercial,
industrial zoning, specifically it states that a construction
office and storage is part of the intended use of this area and he
fells that is important to keep in mind when considering this
application. Staff agrees that they are in compliance with the
Zoning regulations. In reading over the comments regarding the
Comprehensive Plan, they seem to, in every instance, reference
landscaping and screening and he wants to stress to the Commission
that this is what they do plan. Not knowing that this plan was
objectionable, they do not, at this time have a plan of
landscaping, but they do want to work with the Staff to have
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 13 of 30
Lyons
teview
whatever we feel is appropriate to screen all these activities
from the road. We already have a berm planned, and if
appropriate, they would include a fence, trees, etc., whatever
would be appropriate to screen these activities. Fie stated that
they are trying to upgrade that area. The auto body shops have
become, in essence, junk yards. It is very unattractive. There
would be nothing 'like that in this project. All of the activities
would be screened properly. With respect to the trailer, you see
construction trailers being stored in front of Becks, there is
other similar storage going on in that area. He stated that the
activities are not heavy equipment as described in the staff
report. There are approximately six vehicles, one back hoe, one
back end loader, no large cranes, etc. He stated he doesn't
consider these heavy equipment. He stated that he has given a
letter to the staff stating that they will take any appropriate
action regarding dust as a problem, because they will use tarps
and/or watering it down. He stated that they have provided a
drainage plan for the runoff, and will take any action necessary
to mitigate any problems.
Chairman Perkins then opened the public hearing. With no public
input forthcoming, Chairman Perkins closed the public hearing.
Chairman Perkins stated that the Commission can only act on the
proposal they have been presented with. The applicant has spoken
of what they will do, but it is not included, so cannot be acted
upon. The Chairman asked if the applicant would prefer tabling
this item at this time. The applicant stated he would like the
item to be tabled.
Jack Hunn moved to table this item.
Henry Vest seconded and the motion carried unanimously.
Lot 37/38 Block 2 Benchmark at Beaver Creek Subdivision. Beaver
Creek West Entrance Center, Zone Change Request Public Hearing.
and Conceptual Design Review
Rick Pylman stated that the applicant has asked to withdraw this
application. They no longer wish to pursue this project.
Chairman Perkins asked if it would require any action and Rick
Pylman stated that it did not.
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 14 of 30
Lot 45, Block 3. Wildridge SubdivisionFront Yard Setback
Variance Request, Public Hearing, and Conceptual Design Review
Jim Curnutte stated that in conjunction with this application is a
conceptual design review application. He stated that he would
review the front yard setback request first. He stated that the
applicant would like to develop this property with a duplex
structure and is requesting relief from the required 25 foot front
yard setback along West Wildridge Road. The encroachment is
limited to the garage portions of both of the units. The lot
itself is about an acre in size and the units are about 2600 and
2100 sq. ft. respectively, not including the garages. The
applicant has stated that the variance is necessary to provide a
reasonable driveway grade to the property. In addition, he cited
that fact that in the original Wildridge design guidelines
allowance for a variance of this nature, up to fifteen feet, or
within ten feet of the front setback line, when certain conditions
occur, and that is related to the property. Whenever a property
has a slope between 20 and 30%, this sort of variance is kind of
written into the original guidelines for Wildridge. Curnutte
stated that he explained to the applicant that it is not the
Town's responsibility to specifically enforce or carry out that
particular document and he would need to meet the Town's
guidelines and meet the Town's criteria.
Curnutte reviewed the criteria for reviewing a variance request.
He stated that on Lot 44, immediately to the west, Buz Reynolds
residence, a large structure is being built. That lot has very
similar grades and did not require a variance to accommodate a
several thousand foot structure and large garage. The properies
to the east are vacant at this time. Staff does not feel that the
garage encroachment will have a significant effect on the future
home owners of these lots.
Curnutte stated that Lot 44 is meeting all of it's setback
requirements. Since Lot 45 is not significantly steeper than Lot
44, it would not appear that relief from the strict enforcement of
the setback requirement is necessary to achieve compatibility and
uniformity of treatment among sites in the vicinity. He stated
that there would not appear to be any negative upon light and air,
distribution of population, transporation and traffice facilities,
public facilities and utilities and public safety.
Curnutte stated that after reviewing the application and reaching
a decision, the Com,iission must cite the findings used as a basis
for the decision.
Staff recommendation is for denial of the variance request,
stating that Staff feels that granting a variance will constitute
a grant of special privilege inconsistent with the limitations of
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 15 of 30
Lot 45, Block 3. Wildridge Subdivision, Front Yard _.Setback
Variance Request Public Hearing and Conceptual Design_ Review
cont
other properties classified in the same district and that the
variance is not warranted since:
1. The strict, literal interpretation and enforcement of the
specified regulation would not result in practical difficulty or
unnecessary physical hardship inconsistent with the objectives of
this title;
2. There are no exceptional or extraordinary circumstances or
conditions applicable to the site of the variance that do not
apply generally to other properties in the same zone;
3. The strict or literal interpretation and enforcement of the
specified regulation would not deprive the applicant of privileges
enjoyed by the owners of other properties in the same district.
Curnutte stated that whatever the Commission decides a resolution
will be prepared and presented at the next meeting for signatures.
Mr. Vedder stated that he had no additional comments since Staff
had pretty well covered all the bases.
Buz Reynolds stepped down as a voting member of the Commission due
to a conflict of interest.
Chairman Perkins then opened the public hearing. With no public
input to be heard, Chairman Perkins then closed the public
hearing.
Sue Railton stated that the applicant could go further forward on
the lot in a southerly direction. The applicant stated that this
is very true, but the land does pitch down at an average close to
30% which is pretty steep. Railton stated that it is only a two
story house and it could be built stepping down the site. The
applicant stated that there is, between the floor level, the main
living level, which is aleady on the order of five feet below
street level. From that level to the bedrooms below there is like
eleven feet difference and it is still going to require five to
seven foot foundation walls to support that lower level. There is
a lot of verticality in a very limited amount of horizontal
distance. Discussion followed on the proposed placement .
Jack Hunn stated that he sees some positive attributes of what the
applicant is requesting, trying to minimize the impact of the
garage doors on the street. The applicant responded that his
intention was to turn the garage doors away from the street. Hunn
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 16 of 30
ion_,_ _ _Front_ _Yard_ _ Set_baCk
-onceptua) DesignRev ieW
stated that this proposed solution would achieve more than the
Town's minimum parking for each of the residential units. He
stated that, on the other hand, part of the rational for a
variance is to achieve a three :.ar garage, which is desirable, but
not essential, on one of the units. He stated that he is not
convinced that the applicant can't accomplish those without asking
for a variance. He stated that he is not willing to say that he
wouldn't support it with more information and further study, but
at this time he is not convinced that a variance is the only
solution.
Henry Vest stated that those lots are very steep and the houses
that are going up now, i.e. the Sherman duplex, has a very steep
lot. Although this one is not as bad, he thinks it is good what
the applicant has done with the sod roof over the garage. It
makes the building actually beyond the 25 foot setback. It does
achieve the garage doors not being visible from West Wildridge
Road. He would support this variance request.
Rhoda Schneiderman stated that, conceptually, she has a problem
with the sod roof. She thought it was a large mound that is going
to look ungaingly. She doesn't mind granting the setback, she
just has problems with this large piece of sod, maybe it should be
landscaped. Discusion followed.
Patti Dixon stated that she had no problem granting this variance.
Chairman Perkins stated that he has a problem with granting this
variance. He stated that he agreed with Rhoda about the sod roof.
He finds it incongruent with the hip roofs and generally not very
well integrated with the rest of the house. Also, from a
conceptual design review standpoint, he finds the pitch of the
roof too shallow and the hip roofs generaly kind of forced. He
feels that there are other solutions without granting this
variance at this time, even though another solution might require
a variance. As presented at this point in time he is not in favor
of the variance.
Henry Vest move to grant approval of the front yard setback
variance, citing the findings A., B. and numbers 1 and 2 in C.
Patti Dixon seconded. The approval was denied with Dixon and Vest
voting for and Perkins, Schneiderman, Hunn and Railton voting nay.
Jim Curnutte then reviewed the conceptual design for the
Commission, stating that it is basically a two and one half story
building, about 4,700 sq. ft. and the tile shingles would be some
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 17 of 30
Setback
cont
sort of cementitious tile with a dull finish. The siding will be
a 1 x 6 tongue & groove cedar siding on about 25% of the wall
area, and the other 75% would be finished with stucco. There would
be cladded wood windows and stucco deck pilasters.
With a conceptual design, Staff doesn't offer a formal
recommendation, but would like to point out a couple things to the
applicant. They are that the the building height maximum is
thirty five feet and this application exceeds that height. Those
portions of the concrete driveway thresholds and lanterns located
at the utility easements will need review and approval from all
utility companies prior to the issuance of a building permit..
Discussion followed on the canterlevering on the the lower floor,
the way the sod roof is not intergrated into the landscaping, and
the pitches of the roof. It was suggested that steeper pitched
roofs would help the massing and perception of this project. Sod
should be used on flat roofs not sloping. The image of the house,
from the street, could be improved. It was suggested that trees
or wildflowers be used on the sod roof. The applicant reminded
the Commission that he already has a height problem and with a
steeper roof it would be more aggravated. Discusssion followed on
how the applicant might correct the overage on the height.
Discussion followed on the possibility of the height level being
corrected by stepping down the house.
Buz Reynolds returned as a voting member of the Commission.
Jim Curnutte stated that the Commission reviewed this at
conceptual level at the last meeting. He stated that both the
conceptual and final design plans are provided so that the
Commission can see how the project has changed since conceptual
review.
Curnutte stated that the residence will be accessed by a 14' wide
driveway, which was one of the Commission's comments at conceptual
review. The driveway approaches the house at about a 5% grade
from the northeast. A landscaping/grading/drainage plan has been
provided. The building is a two story residence, 2100 sq. ft. in
size, the building height is 26' maximum, there is a gas fireplace
in the living room. Materials being used are Timberline Ultra
asphalt shingles in a slate blend; 1 x 6 cedar siding, stucco
located at the chiment only, 1 x 4 and 1 x 10 cedar fascia, cedar
plywood soffits, clad casement windows and a wood deck.
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 18 of 30
dencz_,_ _ Fina l
Curnutte reviewed the criteria for considering a final design
review. He stated that the driveway grades on the north side of
the drive, near the entrance, exceed the maximum allowable of 50%.
Curnutte stated that the applicant has made an attempt to address
all of the Commission's concerns from the conceptual review The
applicant has amended his elevation drawings to fit the house in
better with the existing topography, however this has notbeen
reflected on the site plan, so that will have to be amended.
Staff recommends approval of this application with the following
conditions:
1. The grading/drainage/landscape plan be amended to reflect the
slope along the sides of the house and reduce the slope along the
northeast corner of the driveway. The new plan will then be
subject to approval by the Town Staff when he applies for a
building permit.
Mr. Brennand stated that he would be happy to supply the revised
grading/drainage/landscape plan.
Discussion followed on the changes that had been made, and whether
the driveway grade could be corrected. Discussion followed on the
landscaping and the colors to be used which would be the
transparent cedar coloring with white trim and a slate color roof.
Discussion followed on maybe changing the roof line. The
applicant stated that he would rather not and would rather not use
the weathered wood color shingles as suggested.
Chairman Perkins stated that he did not like this house. He feels
that it does not reflect the level of design quality that he, as
one commissioner, would like to see in Wildridge.
Henry Vest moved to approve the final design review with the Staff
conditions.
Rhoda Schneiderman seconded.
The motion carried with John Perkins and Jack Hunn voting nay.
Rhoda Schneiderman stepped down as a voting member of the
Commission due to a conflict of interest.
Jim Curnutte stated that one of the comments made at conceptual
design review was that "the exposed foundation walls must be
PLANNING AND ZONING
June 16, 1992
Page 19 of 30
COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
Lot 38-A Block 2, Wildridge Subdivisions_ Maroney Residence,
Material Change Request (cont)
covered with some type of finish material and stucco is
suggested". At final design review the following building
materials were approved:
10" round log siding
Stucco siding on all exposed concrete
Woodruf singles
Aluminum windows
On October 15, 1991, the applicants received design review
approval to change their roof material from woodruf to asphalt
shingles.
The applicants are now proposing to change the approved stucco
material on the exposed concrete to paint.
Pat Maroney stated that there is very little exposed concrete from
any of the roadways. The intention of the change is to simplify
the finalization of the house. There is no reason for putting
stucco on a small portion of the house.
Discussion followed on how much of the foundation is visible from
the road. Buz Reynolds stated that he would have to see a portion
of it painted before he could approve the change. The applicant
stated that they intend to match as closely as possible the logs.
He provided a chip of the closest color they could find. Jack
Hunn stated that he thinks that this is a very visible aspect of
the house from the road. He stated that this is a very high
quality home and to make this change on the last 5% of the
exterior of the home would be detrimental to the final product.
He would prefer to see a coiitrast of colors, rather than the same
color of the logs, and a stucco finish. Jack Hunn asked about the
meter where the driveway meets the street. Mr Maroney staled that
this was the meter for the home. Mr. Hunn then asked Staff it
that was consistent with the previously approved plans? He stated
that it was his understanding the the meters were to be on the
homes. Rick Pylman stated that he believes that the guidelines
state that the meters should be on the homes and screened if
possible. Henry Vest stated that he thinks that the applicant
should stick with the originally approved stucco. Patti Dixon
stated that she thinks it should be stucco. Considerable
discussion followed on the stucco adding some texture and also the
durability of the stucco. It was felt that paint on concrete is
not a good long term solution. Discussion followed on whether
someone could tell the difference from the road.
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 20 of 30
i_dence,.
Henry Vest moved to deny the material change request for Lot 38-A,
Block 2, Wildridge Subdivision, Maroney residence.
Patti Dixon seconded.
Under further discussion Gail Maroney asked if it would be alright
if they just brushed the concrete and paint it? Jack Hunn stated
that there is a process called parging, which is a single coat
troweled on application, which may be appropriate. Further
discussion followed on this being a quality house and the matter
of applying quality material to the exposed foundation.
Henry Vest amended his motion to include that the originally
approved color and textures be used.
Patti Dixon seconded the amendment. The motion carried with Sue
Railton and Buz Reynolds voting nay.
Bristol
Jim Curnutte stated that the applicant received final design
approval and fractionalization approval for this project on March
19, 1991. The project involves two buildings, a six-plex and an
eight-plex. The staff report presented on March 19, 1991
specifies the following exterior building materials:
- Redwood and Stucco siding
- Cedar shingles
- Aluminum clad windows
- Metal deck railings
- Spherical pendant lights
Curnutte stated that during the meetins one of the Commissioners
specifically asked the representative of the applicant if indeed
redwood siding would be used. Mr. Donaldson stated that since
they were considering a solid body stain for the siding, they did
not want to tie themselves down or specify redwood in particular,
but stated that it would be some type of wood siding.
In early May Mountain Coast Homes submitted a building permit
application for this project. During the review of the project
Staff noted a number of changes being proposed to the project. He
stated that the amount of stucco above the garages has been
significantly reduced, the pendant lights have been removed, some
fenestration changes, etc. Staff feels pretty comfortable with
those changes, however a couple issues came up with regard to the
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 21 of 30
Lot 70 Block i, Benchmark at Beaver Creek Subdivision. B. -
siding specifically and the shingles. The request before the
Commission at this time is, in Staff's opinion, a change. The
applicant has stated that they believe that the original approval
did allow for masonite siding. Curnutte stated that he had
listened to the tapes of that meeeting and it is not real clear.
The word masonite does not come up, yet they specifically say that
if it isn't redwood it would be some other type of wood siding.
Staff felt that, rather make that decision at Staff level, they
would present it to the Commission. The apDlicant wants to change
from a natural board siding to a masonite siding. The second
change is a change from cedar shingles that were approved to a
Timberline 360 lb per square, in a weathered wood.
Mark Donaldson stated that Michael Waste of Mountain Coast Homes
has prepared two siding samples for review. Donaldson stated that
they have discovered that the existing buildings are actually
cedar. He stated that there is actually a little more wood grain
texture in the masonite siding, and the colors are very close.
Discussion followed on this color not matching the existing
buildings. Donaldson stated it is their intention to paint the
existing buildings to match this project. Regarding the change to
asphalt shingles, they feel that because of the nature of the
contemporary design of the roof forms and the mixture of
;materials, this is one of the more appropriate applications for
the asphalt shingles. They feel it is a worthy product in terms
of fire insurance ratings, safety, etc., and more importantly,
durability. They are proposing the weathered wood shingle because
that is very close to the natural color that wood shingles weather
to in this environment.
Jack Hunn stated that the applicant gained the approval of this
Commission on the strength of a pretty good design that related
well to the existing building. In his view, the materials of the
one that they are so close to, matching the materials on the
proposed building was the important aspect in his support of this
project as a fractionalized project. He refered to the letter
received from Jeff Maddox, representing the Beacon Hill
Homeowner's Association, which states that they do not support
these changes from cedar shake to asphalt and to a masonite from a
real wood siding. He stated that he tends to agree with those
people. He stated that he doesn't see any merit to this change,
but detrimental to the adjacent and existing properties. Another
issue is the proposal to reduce the amount of stucco area and to
eliminate the light Fixtures and to continue, in his view, take
quality out of the project. He stated he would have difficulty
supporting the reduction of stucco. He feels that they should
also reconsider the deletion of the light fixtures.
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 22 of 30
Mark Donaldson stated that these changes were made to try to clean
up some of the lines around the building, and the removal of the
pendant fixtures were a bit of a problem in terms of the wind
blcwing them. What they have done is gone to a recessed lighting
because they want those stairways and entry ways to be well lit
along with the garage fronts.
13ue Railton stated that she does not mind the masonite siding or
the asphalt shingle roof.
Buz Reynolds stated that he did not mind either of those, but he
felt that the stucco gave character to the building and actually
broke up a lot of the massing.
Donaldson stated that the project was originally designed to be a
manufactured housing product which required about another 12
inches of floor to floor height. In going back to the stick
building version the heights were reduced and they do not have the
height they once had from the garage floor slab to the underside
of the soffit above, so it changed the scale and it didn't seem to
be a massive enough application of stucco to be as meaningful as
it was before.
Patti Dixon stated that she had no problem with either change.
Rhoda Schneiderman stated that she has no problem with the changes
as long as the people in the existing building agree to being
painted the same color.
Henry Vest stated that he does not have a problem with the
masonite siding and was about half and half regarding the asphalt
shingles. He mentioned the letter from Jeff Maddox.
Jack Hunn asked the applicant if they had permission from Beacon
Hill regarding sharing an easement or shared use of a parking lot.
Donaldson stated that there was a variety of cross agreements,
regarding access, utilities, in fact part of the agreement to
settle between the existing homeowners association and the
developer was that there was about $10,000.00 given to them for
the repainting of their building. Jack Hunn asked if gaining
those approvals from the homeowners association was in part due to
the materials proposed for the new building and the fact that they
have taken exception to the proposal presented tonight, that they
might not have been inclined to grant those easements, had the
original proposal included these changes. Donaldson stated he
did not think so. There were about seven or eight major issues
that they dealt with and when it came down to it, the density was
PLANNING AND ZONING
June 16, 1992
Page 23 of 30
_.
COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
the largest issue. The homeowners association and developer sat
down and struck agreements on all counts at that time. There were
the easements, the utility connections on one anothers property,
drainage, their replacing the entire parking lot, and the
developer has made substantial concessions in payments.
Donaldson stated That he did not agree with Jeff Maddox's letter
that they are regressing. He thinks that the samples appear to be
very strong and are very similar in nature as far as the siding.
The building design is somewhat different. When you consider that
the buildings will be over 100 feet away from the street and three
and four stories high, with very small portions of roof exposed at
one time, the asphalt roofing is a very insignificant part of the
design.
John Perkins stated that he had no specific problems with the
materials, but what he hates to see is a break in the relationship
with the existing homeowners association. He feels that there can
be problems.
Discussion followed on the suggestion that this item be tabled
until clearer information can be received from the homeowners
association. The applicant stated that this would cause delay in
the issuance of the building permit.
Jack Hunn stated that he feels strongly that the project should be
built as originally proposed.
Jack Hunn moved to deny the requested material change for Lot 70,
Block 1, Benchmark Subdivision based on section 6.00 of the design
guidelines and specifically section 6.16 - that no improvement be
so dissimilar to others in the values that values monetary or
aesthetic would be impaired.
John Perkins seconded. The motion to deny failed with a 2 to 5
vote.
Rhoda Schneirderman moved to table this application until the July
7 meeting, but not to withhold building permits, and that the
applicant meet with the owners of the adjacent townhomes and get
actual feedback as to whether or not this is objectionable and
some sort of written feedback be provided at the next meeting.
Henry Vest seconded.
Hunn asked Staff if they would issue a building permit under these
conditions. Rick Pylman stated that the only way a building
permit would be issued is with the understanding that the building
PLANNING, AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 24 of 30
will be constructed as approved, and if no changes are approved,
it is to be built according to the original approved plans.
Perkins stated that it will be a while before the applicant gets
to this stage of construction, therefore they could proceed at
this time.
The motion carried unanimously.
's Restaurant__and
Jim Curnutte stated that Jim Morter, representing Kevin Killham,
is requesting conceptual design review of a Denny's restaurant on
the corner of Avon and Sunroad roads. He stated that that
property was formaly 3 lots with the bank on one lot and the other
two lots were vacant. It has been resubdivided to create a new
public road through there and the property is now five lots, with
the bank on one of them, and the bank has purchased another one
immediately west of their parking lot. The post oFfice has
purchased a large lot over by the Comfort Inn, and there are two
lots, north of Sunroad and west of Avon Road that are left. This
proposal is proposed for those two lots. Both lots are slightly
over half an acre in size. They are zoned Town Center, which is
the most urban zone district. If this project receives final
design review approval, the applicants will vacate the lot line
between the two lots.
Curnutte stated that the development consists of a one story
restaurant, about 5000 sq. ft. in size, and an attached commercial
building. The commercial portion of the buil,-ing is about 2,500
sq. ft., a one story building located on the north side of the
restaurant. Curnutte stated that the owners do not intend to
build the commercial portion immedaitely, but Staff wanted to look
at what is being proposed, so they asked the applicant to show
that building on the elevation drawings and the site plan. Since
they are not going to build the commercial building right away,
they have provided an alternate north elevation drawing.
Curnutte stated that, assuming that the commercial building will
be used for retail purposes, and assuming that the dining area of
the restaurant were a certain size, the minimum required parking
spaces would be 41. The site plan shows 52 on the site, including
4 handicap spaces. When these spaces are combined with other
impervious materials, such as sidewalks, loading areas and the
building itself, the total impervious surface is approximately 77%
of the entire property area. This is slightly under the 80%
allowed in this zone district. In addition to the parking spares
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 25 of 30
Lots 2 and 4. Sunroad Subdivision Denny's Restaurant and
Commercial Building, Conceptual Design Review, (cont)
there is a driveway that loops all the way around the building.
The applicants state that this is necessary for loading access.
There is loading at the back and it is indicated that the trash
related to the restaurant will be stored inside the loading area,
however there is nothing on the site plan to show where the trash
from the commercial building will be stored.
The roof material on the building was proposed as balast, however
the newly submitted plans show a different roof. Mechanical
equipment needs to be exposed to the air, and will be screened
with stucco walls. The building walls will be covered with stucco
and split faced block. The windows and doors will be aluminum.
There will be three signs on the building and will be located on
the north, east and south. Each sign is 2 x 14, or 28 sq. ft.
each. They will be individual letters with metal returns and
yellow plexiglass faces. Yellow is Denny's standard sign color.
They will be internally illuminated. There are no signs proposed
for the commercial portion of the building at this time. There is
a monument sign located near the corner of Sunroad and Avon Road.
This sign would be no higher than 8 ft. and would display only
the Denny's name and not any portion of the retail areas. It
would be an internally lit, yellow plexi -glass faced box sign on a
stone pedestal.
Curnutte stated that Staff doesn't make formal comments at
conceptual, but there are some concerns. He stated that Staff
feels that it is a good idea to review the entire project up
front, even though it is going to be built in phases. Staff does
he a some concerns with the phasing of this project and that has
to do with the retail pad being finished with grass for now and
just left for who knows how long. Staff suggests that that area
be used to satisfy some of th parking requirements that Denny's
would like to have, at the very least their excess parking.
Also, additional windows need to be added to the north elevation.
More detailed information needs to be provided on the signage at
final design review stage. Staff suggests that a model of the
proposed building be submitted at final design review. More
specific information should be provided regarding trash storage
related to the commercial part of the building. The applicant
should consider reducing the overall amount of impervious surface
on the property, by reducing the parking spaces or working with
the building to allow the loading berth to be accessed without
such a large sweeping driveway. Also, the landscape plan should
be coordinated with the existing plans for Avon Road and the post
office property. A rather extensive and mature landscape
treatment is suggested.
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 26 of 30
Jim Morter stated that when he was approached with this project
they were presented with the stock Denny's building that you would
see on West Colfax, etc. They then sat down with Staff and
discussed the Town's concerns and fortunately common concerns were
shared. The first concern is that it not appear to be a franchise
building. It needs to be recognizable as a Denny's, but hopefully
one of the better Denny's. The second concern was the design of
the roof as it was presented, and that was a flat roof with
mechanical equipment sitting on top of it and the dreaded little
mansard roof around the peremiter of the building. The third
concern had to do with materials. The concrete block is more
appropriate on the other side of Avon Road than in the Town
Center, so they have deleted any exposed concrete block. He
stated that the applicant is proposing an extensive and mature
landscape plan around the perimeter of the site. They have
approximately 12 to 18 ft. of landscape area,which does allow them
to do some berming as well as planting materials. They have also
provided more landscape area adjacent to the building.
Mr. Morter stated that there is a possibility of a 2500 sq. ft.
retail building being attached. He did not show it on the model
he brought or on the elevations he brought. He stated that the
mechanical equipment does have to be exposed to the air. This
building will be viewed from above to a certain degree as you move
up and down I-70, it will be viewed as you get off at the highway
exit, it will be viewed from the top floors of Avon Center and
potentially other buildings to be developed in the Town Center.
To handle this, they are basically creating a well in the middle
with parapet walls that will be in the range of eight feet high
above the roof surface. He is convinced that they will be able to
screen the mechanical equipment. He stated that he thinks cney
want to get a little steeper with the roof slope than what is
shown on the model Probably two values of the same color,
probably a neutral color, possibly in the grey/beige range, will
be proposed. The sloping roof will be a metal roof. He will
provide a sample of what will be proposed. It will be a non
glare, flat matte roof. Morter stated that he had been mistaken
when he informed Staff that the letters were yellow. The letters
are red and in some cases where they do a background it is yellow.
He would like to stay pretty subtle 1,ith the building colors given
the colors of the signs. Discussion followed on the signage
sizes. Regarding the signage for the commercial building, he is
assuming that two presentations will have to be made. One will be
the original and another will be for the completed version.
Considerable discussion followed on the screening of the
mechanical equipment, the landscaping, and the solution of the two
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 27 of 30
and
phase building. The matter of putting a retail space and a
restaurant together was discussed and it was felt that they are
not really compatible or needed in that location. It was felt
that the site plan would be improved with the deletion of the
proposed commercial building. It was also suggested that the
applicant approach the highway department to get permission to put
additional landscaping in highway right-of-way. Discussion
followed on the snow accumulation in the mechanical areas with the
walls around them. It was suggested that maybe the introduction
of stone would help the exterior appearance. Jim Morter stated
that it is conceivable that they could maybe use some store, but
he doesn't want to use it just as an accent.
Jim Curnutte stated that Larry and Chris Pardee are requesting
conceptual design review. The lot is about 3/4 of an acre in
size. The building is a two story log home, but a substantial
portion of the lower level is below grade. The maximum building
height is about 25'. A two car garage is located in the lower
level and is incorporated into the building's overall design. The
living area is about 3,000 sq. ft., including the unfinished
basement, but not the garage. There is a large deck (12 x 52 ft.)
located along the rear of the house. Exterior building materials
are logs, stucco, river rock, vertical cedar siding, 1 x 6 trim,
asphalt shingles, and wood doors and windows. The driveway will
be finished with asphalt. No grading /drainage or landscape plan
has been provided and the reason for that is that the applicant
has indicated that they are more interested in hearing the
Ccmmission's comments about the building's proposed architecture
and materials at this time.
The applicant stated that did not have anything to add to the
staff report. He did say that the drive was drawn in by hand, but
he hats an engineer from the Town of Vail working on it for him,
and he has a landscape engineer working on that also.
Discussion followed c,n the locations of the river rock and the
stucco. Discussion followed that there should be some added
interest on the street side elevation. Discussion followed on the
driveway and a turnaround area. The applicant stated that that
has been taken into consideration. Discussion followed on the
roofing material. The applicant stated that his first choice
would have been a m=tal roof, but he is aware that the Commission
has problems with this type roof. He stated that he doesn't
really have any thing against cedar shakes other than they are
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 28 of 30
expensive and they would have to be replaced in ten or twelve
years. Asphalt shingles are what he can afford.
It was the general consensus that, with some added interest on the
street side, this would be 2n attractive addition to the area.
Lot 95 Block 1. Wildridge Subdivision Gossett Duplex, Conceptual
Design Review
Jim Curnutte stated that Dave Gossett is requesting a conceptual
design review on a duplex. The lot is about a half acre in size.
The property slopes toward the west at about 17%. The proposed
building is a two and a half story high building, however a
substantial portion of that lower floor is below grade. Maximum
buildin( height is about 28'. A two car garage and mechanical
storage area is located at the lower level of both units, and the
living area is on the second floor and that is about 2,000 sq. ft.
The applicant hasn't decided if he will go with a gas or
woodburning fireplace. All driveway areas will be asphalt.
Proposed building colors will be presented at the meeting.
Exterior building materials include Timberline asphalt shingles -
slate color, 1 x 8 channel rustic cedar siding, stucco, rough sawn
cedar fascia, metal clad wood windows, wood deck with peeled aspen
log railings, and copper on chimney caps and possibly bay windows
roof. A conceptual grading and landscaping plan has been
received. The overall amount of landscaping on the property
appears to be very minimul. Showing native vegetation at all areas
around the house and driveway seems unrealistic and the applicant
agrees that the next plan will better. Staff also feels that when
this comes in for final it should be submitted at least at 1/4
scale.
Jack Hunn stated that he thinks that the Staff has aaequately
addressed the site issues and landscaping issues. He stated that
he is most concerned with the north elevation. The applicant has
made an attempt to add interest by changing materials on this long
wall plane. That side of the building needs to change the plane.
Dramatic changes in the massing of the building needs to be done
on that side. The building also becomes very tall as viewed from
the road. Discussion followed on this matter. Hunn stated that
most of the concern he has is regarding the massing.
Rhoda Schneiderman stated that both the east and north elevations
bother her. The front has all this activity, windows and doors
etc., and then there are the two sides that are totaly void of any
kind of interest. The long driveway needs some interest added,
i.e. landscaping.
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 29 of 30
'on. Gossett Duplex, Conceptual.
Henry Vest had concerns regarding the two rectangular windows on
the southwest side. He felt that a better solution might be found
for this element. He also felt the something needed to be done
with the long north elevation.
Patti Dixon stated that she also had problems with the east and
north elevations. She felt that more landscaping was needed,
especially at the driveway.
Buz Reynolds also stated that the north and east elevations need
more character.
Sue Railton stated that she didn't like the design at all. The
windows look as if you have one special of every size just
splattered around the house.
Chairman Perkins stated that he echos the comments by his fellow
Commission members. He feels that there is a lack of a concept.
He would encourage the applicant to maybe start over with a design
concept that a building could grow with some interest. The
massing is just not acceptable from his standpoint.
Reading and Approval of the Plar;ing and Zoning Commission Meeting
Minutes for May 19, 1992
Henry Vest moved to approve the minutes for the May 19, 1992
meeting as submitted.
Rhoda Schneiderman seconded and the motion carried unanimously.
Sue Railton moved to approve the minutes of 'the June 2, 1992
meeting as submitted.
Jack Hunn seconded and the motion carried unanimously.
Other Business
Buz Reynolds moved to approve resolution 92-05, A Resolution
Granting A Variance From The Side Yard Building Setback
Requirements For Lot 26, Block 1, Parcel 2, Wildridge
Subdivision.
Rhoda Schneiderman seconded, and the motion carried with Henry
Vest abstaining.
Sue Railton moved to approve resolution 92-06, A Resolution
Granting A Special Review Use To Allow For The construction Of A
Church On Lot 45, Block 1, Benchmark At Beaver Creek Subdivision.
Henry Vest seconded, and the motion carried with John Perkins
abstaining.
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 16, 1992
Page 30 of 30
Other Business cont
John Perkins asked the Commissioners if they would feel
comfortable if the Staff approved a change in the railing colors
for the Christie Lodge from black to white. The Commissioners
agreed that this would be batisfactory.
Rick Pylman reported that, at the Town Council Worksession on
Tuesday, June 23, 1992, a joint meeting to talk about design
review issues, has been scheduled. He will contact all Commission
members with the time, once the agenda is set.
The matter of how Holy Cross could go to the Council to ask for a
reversal of a motion to table was discussed.
Jack Hunn moved to adjourn at 11:20 PM.
Respectfully, submitted.
Charlette Pascuzzi
Recording Secretary
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