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PZC Minutes 080393RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3, 1993 The regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission was held on August 3, 1993, at 7:40 P.M. in the Town Council Chambers, Avon Town Municipal Building, 400 Benchmark Road, Avon, Colorado. The meeting was called to order by Chairman John Perkins. Members Present: John Perkins, Jack Hunn, Patti Dixon, Sue Railton, Henry Vest Buz Reynolds, Rhoda Schneiderman. Staff Present: Rick Pylman, Consultant Norm Wood, Town Engineer Vari Reichardt, Assistant Secretary Chairman Perkins stated all members were present, except Henry Vest who could not make it, and Charlette Pascuzzi who was on vacation. The meeting was called to order at 7:40, a bit late because there was a mechanical problem with the recorder that had been set up in the meeting room from the previous meeting. Vari went upstairs and got the one off ofCharlette's desk --this one worked fine. The first order of business was to introduce the new Planning Director Steve Amsbaugh. Rick did the honors. They were all pleased that he was finally "here." Lot 46A/46B. Block 1. Wildridge Subdivision Setback Variance Public Hearing Rick mentioned that this first item on the agenda needed to be tabled. John asked for a motion to table the item. Jack moved that it be tabled, and Rhoda Schneiderman 2nd the motion. The motion passed unanimously. PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 2 Lot 84, Block 4, Wildridge Subdivision, Setback Variance, Public Hearing. Rick stated that Mark Donaldson, on behalf of Mike Beltracchi, is requesting a front yard variance for Lot 84, Block 4, WR. That is on the downhill side of Wildridge Rd. East. It is the very top road that runs east/west. It is a very steep lot. The road elevation is 18 feet above the elevation of the lot at the 25 foot setback. There was a lot of cut and fill that was done to make that road. From the asphalt to the property line there is a 47% grade, extremely steep. The natural topography is around 30% for the area. The fill from the roadway in that first 40 feet off of the asphalt is very steep. This creates quite a problem for accidents. Rick mentioned criteria to be considered when looking at a variance. The first is the relationship of the variance to other existing potential uses. The use in this case will be residential. This is compatible. The second criteria is the degree of the strict or literal interpretation of "our" regulations that is necessary for this variance. The are asking for a variance of a relief of 15 feet with a 25 foot setback. Rick thinks it is reasonable because it is in-line with what has been done in the past. The house and garage are far enough back to allow 2 cars to park in the garage, and 2 cars to park just behind the garage doors, without interfering with road operations and traffic. Because the lot is steep it could create a great disturbance to bring a driveway down to the 25 foot setback. The degree in which the applicant is looking for relief is quite reasonable. Rhoda asked where the site plan was. Rick said it is on the wall and he would show it in a minute. The third criteria is the effect of light and air, distribution of population, transportation, traffic, etc.. The only issue the Staff could find was the interference with road operations. The garage is far enough back to not interfere with road operations. This is in line with what has been done in the past with other steep lots. Recommendation is for approval. Rick then went to the drawings that the Board will be seeing at the next Design Review for this lot. He pointed out on the site plan where the road is, the driveway, and where the house and garage are set at. The house is set back somewhat from the garage. The 25 foot setback line runs through the middle of the house and towards the back of the garage. From the garage to the edge of the pavement is 24 feet, so there is more than adequate room for a truck or car to park behind the garage door. Rhoda asked if he was going to have to back out into the street. Rick said yes. She then wanted to know if there was room enough to put a turn -around area on the side of the driveway. Rick said that there is some guest parking area that could function as a tum -around coming out of the garage, but there is no way to turn around from the driveway. John asked if this concluded Rick's introduction. Rick said it was. Then John asked if Mark wanted to add to what was said. Mark said there was nothing he had to add to it. John's comment was that he felt the variance was warranted and unless anyone had any other input, he was ready to take a motion. Jack Hunn reminded him that he needed to .open a public hearing on the issue. 1 N1 PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 3 Lot 84, Block 4, Wildridge Subdivision, Setback Variance, Public Hearing. (g cont.) John then opened it up for discussion to the public, but since there was no comment, John closed the discussion. Sue Railton then made the motion to approve the Variance with the findings in Section 17:36:50 A. B. C. 1, 2, and 3. Jack Hunn 2nd the motion. There was no further discussion of the motion so the vote took place. The Variance passed unanimously. Lot 84, Block 4. Wildridge Subdivision, Beltracchi Residence, Final Design Review Rick said that there was a Conceptual Review at the last meeting for this proposal and it is back for a Final Design. Rick then went through some of the stats on the lot. The lot is zoned, Duplex. This is really a primary/secondary construction. A single family house with a caretaker unit, with 800 square feet in the basement. This is allowed by zoning, and the house does meet all zoning requirements, with a Setback Variance in place. The driveway is nearly flat coming in, Lot coverage is less than 10% and driveway is paved. Rick then went over the Staff Report provided to the Board in the packets. Rick mentioned that there were a couple of issues that were raised at Conceptual. The first was that the utilities that had to go downhill to the utility lines at the bottom of the lot, could use the side lot line easements. They can and will use the side line easements as indicated. There was also a concern about the rear elevation of the garage where the lot drops away very quickly, that the stucco wall would look tall and blank. The architect has addressed that by putting some cut-outs and adding some arches to it. These were the only two issues that came up at Conceptual. Then Rick finished going over the rest of the Staff Report. With this complete, he turned over the rest of the details to the architect, Mark Donaldson. Just before Mark stepped to the podium and introduced himself he passed out samples of their interior and exterior stucco colors to the Board. They dealt with the rear garage elevation in several ways. They felt that dividing and opening the wall would look too contrived. As they studied the plans more and more, for particularly the 3 D aspect, they realized that it can't have a lesser impact than the flat, tall wall. They looked at pushing part of the wall back into the hillside about I feet, which allows the garage and cantilever to offset the mast and the lower wall itself to go around the grade. They felt that the slope of the grade going right up into the wall made it more honest and more of an expression of what was going on with the grade. As far as the solution regarding the colors, if there are any questions, he would be happy to address them. John then opened up the questions; first with Buz, who asked a question regarding how one of the pieces of siding would be applied. Mark said tha; it was part of the application in which part of the back laps over and slides into the next piece (similar to a tongue -n' -grove). Buz liked it a lot better than wafer -board products. Then he asked what the finish was with, paint? The answer was yes. Buz mentioned that the surface did have a kind of shine to it and wondered if it would be a problem PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 4 Lot 84, Block 4 Wildridpe Beltracchi Residence Final Design Review (cont.) when it was completed. Mark said that they have used the material in several projects and the shine does go away. Buz wanted to know about the detail on the wall. The area that is pushed back 4 feet, are they arches? Mark said that they were openings. They arch back east and west and the arches occur on the south wall. The other wall will be solid. Jack asked how far back the cavity went. Mark said it went all the way, and what he was proposing to do was to paint all of the exposed concrete to make it look very finished. They would put the ground back into its natural terrain and treat the inside walls of the cavity. Jack, however, was uncomfortable with the arch treatment, because it was reminiscent of the stilt house. Everyone must know where this house is, he commented. Mark said that he has seen the house, and it does look very unfinished. he said it looks stilted. It has arches on both sides, and it looks out of proportion to the body mass for the rest of the house. Jack said that at the last meeting it was discussed about adding some false windows to the wall just to give the impression that there will be habitable space. This in combination with landscaping would be a more suitable solution according to him. Having seen the house on stilts, he is not comfortable with another house using similar elements, especially if it is very prominent from above. Mark said that it is not as prominent as one would think. He feels that this would add to the landscaping of the area. It is a difficult site to build upon, so he would like to stick with this concept. Mark said that perhaps an addition of a colored fascia on the balcony around the trim would break up the vertical with the horizontal. This will be the other detail on the house. Jack commented that the arch is not repeated anywhere else on the house. The other addition Jack wanted to make was that the driveway appears to be very flat; poor for drainage, particularly back towards the garage doors. Mark did admit that there is not a lot of slope for drainage, but he did find that the water does run off on the east and west sides. Mark gave an explanation regarding the gravel being shor,, out the rest of the sentence was not picked up on the tape, because Mark had moved away from the microphone. Jack asked wh: re the meters will be located on the building. Mark said that they will be near the entry way. In between the garage and the entry. It will be in a landscaped area around the garage. Jack said that the east elevation appears to be blank and will be visible to the neighbors and the road. "Is it possible to add more interest into that elevation?" Mark said that they tried to introduce an option to the owner, which was a bed -wall on both of the levels, like they have on the North side. Then have the windows facing back towards the street. He would like to put a high awning. Like the windows on the South side, Mark would repeat them there. Patti Dixon began her comments stating that she thought it was a good looking house, and that she did not mind the arches. The east elevation, because it is so blank, would look good with a proposed window if there were more landscaping; more evergreens. 4"N AS) ^ e— t PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 5 • Lot 84, Block 4, Wildridge Subdivisiom Beltracchi Residence Final Design Review (cont.) Rhoda began her statements by asking what the intentions were for the ground that goes into the archways. Marks answer was that it will be graded and seeded. He also said that there will be junipers and conifers around it. Rhoda said that it won't be a see-through then, like the other arched houses. She did not feel it was a good solution. She could see it if he had some of the arch forms a somewhere else in the building to make it echo off other shapes. She would rather see some additional relief trim on the stucco, or just cover the wall with some big trees. Mark said they have planned on placing some spruce trees in front of the arches and other planting in front of it. Rhoda said that if he made the trees big enough he could make the wall blank and save himself some money. The arches as they are planned seem contrived. She doesn't mind the blank wall because of everything he has going with the other parts of the house. Sue Railton did not mind the arches at all, she felt they were quite good if there will be good planting around them, The same as the east side, just get good planting. Mark said that they were struggling with some of the site solutions, and they were trying to make it fit in with everything as well as they could. He felt that the arches lent to a more softening effect, they looked more natural, and gave a more honest expression. John Perkins said that he was not in favor with the arches. He felt that Mark was battling that line where the house stops and the garage begins. It is such a divisional line of what is going on with the building. Maybe if he put a window in the back of the garage. But, John feels that the arches just don't work with the rest of the house. Mark said that he feels that it is a small part in the over-all solution. Jack Hunn stepped in and asked if the cantilever was done in the garage, because it looked that way with the shading they did. John said that if he used the cantilever, a window in the back of the garage, and some trees, that would be all that he needed. Mark said that he could place a window in the east elevation to match the awning. Go to a plain wall, have drip irrigation, have a window in the south garage wall (something similar to the arch window). This would "chew -up" the blank area on that garage wall. Buz wanted to clarify what was being planned with the garage wall, is he going to bring the mask on down? Mark said no, he will leave the mask as is, blank out the arches, and place an awning window in the garage in the upper level near the cantilever. John wanted to entertain a motion. Sue clarified that he was going to take the arches out. Mark said he doesn't want to. Rhoda asked Rick or Steve if it would be something they wowd be comfortable re -reviewing. Rick said that he thought it was pretty clear. They then discussed again exactly what was decided for Rick's clarification. ~ Aows PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 6 Lot 84, Block 4. Wildridpe Subdivision, Beltracchi Residence, Final Design Review (cont.) Rhoda then moved for the approval of Lot 84, Block 4, Wildridge, with the following stipulation. The archways be removed, the solid wall replace the arches, the cantilever remain, and an awning window be placed into the cantilever portion of the garage; and that it be reviewed by staff before building permit is issued. Also, a matching window on the east elevation be installed on the same level as the existing window. Patti Dixon 2nd the motion. There was no further discussion of the motion, so the vote took place with an unanimous approval. Lot 42/43, Block 2. Beaver Creek West, Design Changes, Final Desmon Review Rick Pylman stated that on July 6, 1993 the Planning and Zoning Commission saw this proposal, requesting to change the balcony railings and a portion of the Phase I building of Beaver Creek West. The portion to be changed was the inside balconies that created a horseshoe shape; all of these inside balconies would be changed. This proposal was tabled due to requests for additional information, and what might be happening on the Painting and Building Improvement Plan. Since that meeting the buildings have been painted in the exact color that they were. If the Board wished to see the colors they could look out the windows for a better idea. The colors are not listed but the brown is the body color, and the blue is the trim. Again the request for the handrail is to take what is right now a solid siding, and replace it with a transparent rail. There will be a top and bottom rail of 1 inch square steel tube, and the pickets would be 1/2 inch steel. There is an actual "real live piece of railing right there for you' to view. The only thing that was not known is what color scheme Beaver Creek West was going to use, and that question has been answered. John stated that the only question they had was the black color for the railings. Rick then verified that was a question as it related to the color scheme of the building; if it was to change or not. Mike Bennett said that the only reason for the black for him was the maintenance. The snow will melt off of it much faster. He wants them dry. Rhoda asked if they were in front of all sliding glass doors. Mike said that they were after pausing to think about it. There are 64 units and it took him a minute to consider them all. Mike said that you walk out of the sliding glass doors to get to the railings, but they may cover more than just the door area. Rhoda commented that the windows seem dark and the black color of the railings may blend in a bit more. Mike said that the trim on the sliding glass doors was the bronze that is dark. Mike verified to them that he will be painting the railings, so he could make them any color that was desired, although he preferred black. Then Mike pulled out a series of color samples as a joke to show that he was ready to pick a color. Jack asked to place the samples next to the red trim Rick reminded them that the trim is going to be only 1% of the body of the building. Mike also added that the only thing that is trim is the fascia. John felt then that the black railings would be fine. He said that on the Christy Lodge there was PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 7 Lot 42/43, Block 2, Benchmark_ Beaver Creek West. Design Changes. Final Design Approval (cont.) black railings until they re -did it. John felt that changing to the white color for their railings was one of the best decisions they had made. However, in this case, he thinks the black would look nice with the tan siding as a background. John asked for other comments. Buz joked that he just doesn't like black railings. Then he said he had no problems with the black railings, but wondered how it would adhere to the other side; with a bracket or just a piece that would come down. Mikes answer was that there would be sockets that would attach to the building. Then there will be a piece that would fit into them at whatever angle necessary-. On an older building there aren't always right angles. This will allow the straight bars to slip in and hold tight. Jack expressed another concern that came up last time in which it was felt that it might be interesting to leave the sides solid, and only open up the longer length of each balcony. Mike said that there desire is to get rid of the solid sides, because it is in dire need of repair, and they would have to replace a good portion of it. They have had to replace quite a bit of the cedar siding already. Sue Railton thought that the railing was a good idea, but felt that the color needed to be a blue. She said that with the black, it doesn't match any other color on the building. She would rather choose a color that related. Mike said whatever was necessary. Rhoda asked if these units opened up to the park. Mike said they did. The outside units, Mike clarified after Rhoda asked, do not have outside balconies. Patti asked if there were a fence around the pool. Mike said that it is in the chain -fink style. Mike said that starting September, with the owners and this Boards approval, he is proposing to renovate the entire area. He would then like to place the black railing around the pool to make it consistent with the rest of the building. The Board thought it would be great to have this railing around the pool at a higher level, like at an 8 foot height. Mike felt that with this black railing would add to the improvement they are trying to make. This lets everyone know that this particular piece of architecture looks sharp. Mike said that it has taken them 10 years to build up a reserve so they can start adding these improvements. Patti then said that because it doesn't cost any more to paint it black or any other color, then you might as well paint it a color that goes with the building. Rhoda was not sure how she felt; she thought that the black could look sharp. She actually was leaning towards the black. Al r'1 ^ ,"M1 PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING NIINUTES August 3,1993 Page 8 Lot 42/43, Block 2, Benchmark, Beaver Creek West, Design Changes, Final Design Review, (cont.) Sue Railton asked if there was anything else the black railing would relate to eventually other than the pool fencing. Sue said that when they went on the site tour they all tried to imagine seeing the little black railings as the layers of them crossed the building. She thought that they did not relate to anything; it was just black railings. Mike said that he doesn't disagree with her. Sue thought that maybe a dark version of the toffee color on the siding would be better than the black. Mike said that this kind of color would run with the windows as well. Jack asked what color the fascia band was around the base of each balcony, is it teal? Mike said that the only thing that is the teal color is the fascia. Sue asked to look up close at the sample of the siding color. She said that they should not be the ones picking the color, but they were curious. Sue and Rhoda looked at the colors and discussed among themselves which would make a good match. Then they all bunched together to view the different variations. They also discussed semi -gloss paint as opposed to gloss paint. Patti Dixon moved that all approve Lot 42/43, Block 2, Benchmark, Balcony Railing to what was proposed. The color they all liked was Foux Marble. Rhoda Schneiderman 2nd the motion. There was no further discussion, so the vote took place with all in favor. Lot 69. Block 3. Wildridge. Brethauer SinpJe Family Residence Fir -Al Design Review. Re -Submittal of Conditions Rick Pylman opened up the introduction stating that July 6 of this year, the Planning and Zoning Commission granted final approval to the Brethauer residence with a few conditions. One condition required a re -review by the Commission. The concern was the retaining wall that goes around the house, which is prominent and quite visible. The architect was asked to draw some sections through there so that he, as well as the Planning Commission, understood what was going on. These sections are complete and for review, with a copy for almost everyone on the Board. As the drawings were being passed out, the applicant began speaking about them. The one that was before the Board has a Profile A on it. This is a little more representative of what is going on in that section. What was originally drawn and submitted was the line that is closer to the house that shows some retaining comparisons, giving them a flat area directly in front of the house. Further out from that the hillside slopes down and goes back into the existing slope. At Profile A one could see that there's about 4 feet of fill, which occurs even with the easterly edge of the house. When it gets up against the house it actually cuts back in and comes back out to the west. There will be a few terraces, just to get some flat areas next to the building for walkouts. In Profile B, which is actually through the building itself, they are not doing too much to the grade other than cutting into it. He has some fill he PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 9 Lot 69 Block 3. Wildridge, Brethauer Single Family Residence, Final Design Review. Re -Submittal of Conditions (cont.) proposed, which is where he thinks they will be meeting that 12 foot dimension in height that was discussed regarding the stone terraces. He did write down an option of going with a cantilever deck that comes out in place of the terraces, or a combination of I or 2 terraces with a deck above this. He liked the look, however, of the boulder terraces himself. He researched the cost of it and doesn't seem too expensive. He then mentioned that he eventually wants a hillside integrating landscaping to make it look more natural. The 2nd alternative is to have a couple of terraces and then stairs down from the building to that level or to a deck. Rhoda asked if these will start right out of the foundation. The answer was yes. The applicant stated that the footing goes down and a wall is built up on it. The platforms come off of this. Rhoda wanted to know how wide the platforms were. They will be 4 foot wide, came the answer. Rhoda asked if they will be used space or landscape area. The applicant said that it will be landscape area. There will be some space where the stairs can come down, but, he is unsure what will happen. They may delete it and turn it into a window, then come out another direction. For the stone terraces, the applicant said that B & B has a wide selection of boulders. They come in the 2 to 3 foot range or the 4 to 7 foot range. The applicant will need the lower levels to be the larger boulders set along the hillside, and maybe the second level to have a bit smaller boulder. Rhoda said that she would rather see that than a deck. The applicant said that it would be either this or take the wall all the way down to the grade and build a deck out from there. John mentioned to Steve, the applicant, that he should probably drop the top one if he wanted any use. Sieve said that if they did he didn't mind having the stairs come down and then have two terraces. This would shorten the height of the terraces a bit. Buz wanted to know how high the terrace will be. Steve said that if they follow what John has suggested they will be 8 feet, with 4 foot jumps. This will make them total 6 feet above the grade, with the transition downstairs. Maybe right were the stairs are they would build it up so that there would be a 12 foot section, with an 8 foot section running across underneath it. Jack was concerned about the boulders are usually recommended to stack them one to one. The applicant said correct. Jack said they are showing these boulders straight -up. If they are trying to gain 12 feet vertically then you will be gaining 12 feet horizontally in order to accomplish a one to one gravity wall. Steve said that they have built a steeper versions of this plan. They really aren't retaining a lot, because actually the foundation wall will be holding most of the weight. This short section of whatever dirt they fill behind this hole. Jack said that "we have an expectation and so do you and your clients, that when you get all done with this wall there's room to landscape." What may happen out in the field is that the available land for landscaping shrinks in order to meet the engineers specification. Buz said that Steve will have to bench all of "this" out just to get the surfaces in. Once he does he will be able to tunnel it in and bring it back. This will create some more work. O"s ,.1 PANNING AND ZONING CONAUSSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 10 Lot 69, Block 3, Wildridge, Brethauer Residence_ Final Design Review Re -Submittal of Conditions cont. Jack asked if his planting plan would be revised and indicate landscaping. The applicant said yes. Jack said that he liked what Steve was describing. Buz asked if everything below will be seeded. The answer was yes. Steve said that they will try to save what they can including the sagebrush. They will try to re -seed everything with natural grasses. Then he could provide the Board with his variation when he applies for a building permit, which will show all of this. John said that he feels it needs to be resolved and planned, as well as sectioned. He said that Steve brought in the same plan and did not revise the landscaping. Rhoda said that Conceptually she likes it. John asked what action the Board wanted to take on this. Buz asked where the applicant was at in his process of things. Was he ready to get a building permit? Steve said they would like to get going if they could. If they could get approval for the building and then come back for the approval on the downhill wall, as long as the Conceptual idea is O.K., that would be great. John said that he thought they could grant Final Design Approval, conditioned upon a final solution on the retaining wall. Buz said that if it ends up being more down the hill than you think, then you will have to go with it to get the one to one. Steve did not think that they did not have to go with the one to one with the boulders themselves, more like two to one. He has found that this works very well. He has it four feet up and four feet back. You don't want to stack one on top of the other. Jack asked if the Town were able to issue a building permit with outstanding issues. Rick said no, not unless they could get it resolved somehow. Rick was unsure exactly what the Board was t—ring to get at in a motion. He can understand what Steve is describing, but how are we going to get him there. Rhoda said that they want him to bring the Design for the terraces. Can they grant Final Design Approval and have him draw a building permit contingent upon Steve bringing back to the Board, within a month or so, a plan for the retaining wall on the south side. Buz said that Norm would have to review that retaining wall since it is higher than 4 feet. Norm said that if it is higher than 4 feet he doesn't review the structure alone. Just if it has to do with the roads, or part of the Town. He will still look at the calculations to see if it is O.K. Jack said that there should be a landscaping plan that should go with the plan for the retaining wall. Quite often it is recommended that you don't water around certain materials, so it doesn't ruin the support of the materials. Steve said that they could definitely do a gyroscope planting with no water usage. They did include an automatic irrigation system in the site plan. With lower water they will need to plant things that require a lesser amount of water. PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 1 I Lot 69, Block 3, Wildridge. Breathauer Residence. Final Design Review. Re -Submittal of Conditions cont. Rhoda said that she would like to make a motion. She wanted to grant Final Design Approval for Lot 69, Block 3, Wildridge, subject to the following conditions: One, that within the next month, the applicant re -submit a revised south retainage wall which meets all criteria of the Town as far as designed by an engineer, if necessary; and, two, a revised landscape plan be included for this wall. Patti Dixon 2nd the motion. Buz had further discussion. He doesn't feel comfortable with doing this, because he thinks it should be done prior to issuing a building permit. He has no problem of Steve going along with the process of submitting the prints, but he would like to see it finalized before an issuance of a building permit. He feels that it is intricate to the building. Rhoda asked if he submitted it tomorrow, how long would it take for a building permit. Rick said 2 weeks is usual. It could be possible he could have it in at the next meeting. Buz said, though, that they were asking the applicant to do all of this over night. Steve asked if he could bring these plans to the meeting in two weeks. Jack said that if it was tabled he could. Rhoda then withdrew her motion and motioned to table the decision. The vote took place and the proposal was tabled with a unanimous vote. Lot 8 Block 4. Wildridge Subdivision Simon Residence Conceptual Design Review Rick said that at the time he wrote the staff report, this was a very Conceptual Review, with a site plan of one elevation. There were a few more elevations for the Board to view, however, at the time of the meeting. This lot is just about across the street from the house that Mark Donaldson brought in for review, the Beltracchi Residence. This is on the up -hill side of Wildridge Road; the Beltracchi's is on the down -hill side. There is a 35% slope uphill away from the road. Driveway approach is 10%, and Rick said that he did pick-up on this issue right away. Right off the road the grade is at 10%. They are suppose to try to keep the first 20 feet at about 4% and make up any grade that needs to be made up after that. The driveway, thus, needs a little bit of work, and in this case it does appear to be workable since most of the grade is around 7%. The extensive retaining wall system is utilized to present a building site. Rick then went on with the Staff Report for this Review. As a Conceptual Review there is no formal recommendations, the only thing that was picked up was the driveway grade ought not to exceed 4% coming right off the road. Both Buz and Mark Simon had stepped away from the mic's and were discussing the plans, so John and Vari asked if they could come back to the mic's so the recording could pick them up. Buz asked what could be done with the driveway if a loss of 10% in the entrance takes place, can Mark redo the driveway to make it work. Mark said that the house is very close to the road, much closer than they would have liked, because of the steepness. They worked on this driveway and this is the best the designers have been able to come up with. He doesn't know of a way to reduce the steepness. They re ,,.N PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 12 Lot 8. Block 4. Wildridge Simon Residence Conceptual Design Review (cont.) are trying to keep the drive flat as possible up toward the end of the drive and into the garage. Rick said to not change any of the base elevations, just change where the steepness is. It needs to be flatter near the road and steeper near the house. The reason for this, to remind the Planning Commission, is so as you are coming downhill, the last 20 feet should not be the steepest part, because this is where you should be able to put the brakes on and not slide into the road in the winter time. Rhoda asked, what if you run into your garage door because of the steepness? Rick said that's your problem, but running into the street is everyone's problem. Mark wanted to clarify where the steepness should be. He did not see why they could not do this. The biggest problem is that everyone is trying to keep it fairly level up near the top where the cars have to maneuver. John asked if he could go over 10% for the run of the driveway and be flat in his maneuvering area and also be flat near the street. Rick said he probably could. Patti Dixon changed the subject and asked what the column material was going to be. The answer was siding. Then she asked what the material above was, stucco. The answer was yes. Patti also wanted to know if the patio railing was going around the house and if the area will be used for a patio. She said that there were no vertical elements on the railing. She didn't think it was to code. Jack corrected her and said there will be balusters there. Rhoda was confused where the siding stopped and the stucco began. Where do they meet. Mark said that the siding will be on the first floor and the stucco will begin on the second floor. Rick said this is not a final plan, and on the Final they may need to see a color elevation plan. This is a complicated house. Mark said that the house looked complicated, but really wasn't. It will be two boxes in which one box "kind of " sits behind the other and there is a wall way in-between. Rhoda's concern was that the vertical elements to her look like they ought to be stucco and not siding. They have the columnar quality that really seems like it should be stucco, but she can't really visualize them at all how they would look good in siding. Rhoda said she needed a better plan and Sue also agreed that better drawings were necessary to show where things start and stop, including the siding and stucco. Mark said that Rhoda is probably used to suing stucco on the bottom and not on the top like in this case. Rhoda said maybe your correct, but in this particular case "I'm dense." Buz had a further comment regarding the handrail detail. Mark said that the railing will be 3 feet high, and the bottom is just above foot level. There will be something in-between, but this information has not yet been decided. Buz then jokingly commented that he was going to leave the mic and point at something; Are you going to fill up the void in "this area?" Mark's answer was that this information will be provided on the Final Design Review. The architect just wanted to know if this Conceptual drawing looked fine, and then he would fill in the details. O*s ^ r, PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 13 Lot 8. Block 4. Wildridee, Simon Residence, Conceptual Des an Review (cont.) John asked if it was possible for his architect to come and represent Mr. Simon when they come for the Final. Mark said that he had a broken knee, so only if he can walk. Rick said that he has talked to the architect and all he is looking for is a Conceptual approval. He wants know if the basic architecture is O.K., and what the Board thinks of the layout. John felt that the basic architecture was alright and that the forms were quite interesting; it has the potential to be a great house. Mark feels that the architect has done some very nice things to it. He also mentioned that the Board is looking at the house straight on. In order to look at the house straight on one would have to be on top of a crane on a truck from the street, because the house is 35 feet above the street. This is why they decided to place the stucco on the upper level of the house. You can't see the house on the way down the road. Mark said that this house is on the top level, you will always look down from this house. Rick said that the architect won't be there for final. The Board should pass along any visual communication needs you might have. Rhoda said, like a color rendering, material samples, color swatches, etc. Sue asked if this stuff wasn't stipulated in the application for what is needed. Rick said yes, but if the Board wants to see specifically any colored elevations, or renderings, then you should say so. John stated to Mark then that it has been said several times, he needs to provide a colored elevation of this building. Mark said he did not think it would be difficult. Jack Hunn asked a question that to the left of the garage doors there is what looks to be a car port that is covered by the deck, is this really intended to be a parking space? The answer was that it is a storage area for his van or a place for his snowmobiles. It will be a covered area under the deck. Jack said that it probably will not be visible from any other property. Mark said that people may see the top of the van, but in front of the house there will be aspen trees along the road. Most people will hardly see the house from the road due to the aspen trees. Jack asked what the finish on the retaining walls be particularly on the front/street side of the house. Mark said that there will be a retaining wall that runs along the driveway, with a commercial grade, interlocking masonry. It will be very short and low. Jack said that it appears that this wall becomes a tall element on that left side and integrates into the house, and he would be interested in seeing how they make this transition. Mark said that the retaining wall in the back of the house is concrete, but he is not really certain what material will be used along the west/left side. John asked if there was a landscape plan on this. Rick said yes, it was on the board. Jack mentioned that he liked the home. The questions that were asked will be some that will come up at the Final Design Review. If you can be prepared to respond to them at the next meeting it will be great. Mark said that what the architect is really looking for the house he wants to build, how does it look. If it looks fine then he will go on and do the construction drawings. Rhoda said that they like it. "N ^, „,-� PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 14 Lot 8, Block 4. Wildridee Simon Residence, Conceotual Desien Review (cont John said that he will try to cap this off; he had made a list to give to Mark. These are the things the architect needs to address in the final submittal. The driveway grade needs to be reviewed, with attention to the grade as it enters the public right-of-way. The siding and stucco differentiation between those materials needs to be clearly indicated. A colored elevation needs to be submitted, with the major street front in color. All of the retaining wall finishes need to be detailed and delineated clearly, whereas, what is the material of the retaining wall, if that wall makes a transition to another building wall, etc.. Also color and material samples of all of the materials need to be presented, and detailed set of architectural drawings. John said that those are the comments the staff has and good luck. Mark said thank you. Discussion of Fence Detail. Wildridge Pump Station Rick began stating that the Board went through the Design Review discussion and approval of the Pump Station that is currently under construction just below the Wildridge Fire Station. The drawings showed a chain-link fence, and it was talked about some preferences; even with a motion being made for a split -rail fence. This has raised some concern with the engineers regarding safety. Norm came in to discuss this, so Rick turned it over to Norm. What Norm had were some drawings that were prepared for the playground area. What Norm did was show the compatibility and complications of the playground area. There +ill be a minor change in the location of the fence. Previously the fence was shown located on top of the little knoll. One change was to set it back behind the wall so that some landscaping can be done in front, and it can function just as well. The other thing was to stay with a compatible, vinyl -coated fence that is chain- link around the playground area and basketball court. Basically it will have a black coating which will probably work as well as anything you can come up with in a coating and a color. Buz asked how high this fence will be. Norm said it i, a 4 foot high fence. Patti asked if it would be better and cheaper than a split rail fence with a vinyl coated mesh placed over it. Norm said that they looked at the vinyl coated split rail fence in conjunction with the playground area and the Council didn't approve of it. The other thing with the split rail fence, in order to have it high enough to be effective it will be more than three railings, dealing with 4 inch openings. Rhoda said not if it is sided with a mesh, then it doesn't matter how far apart they are. Norm said that you would probably still end up with making it a 4 inch opening and drawing attention to it. The basketball court will have a fence around it, and what Scott is proposing is to start a wall back not quite as far as shown here, but will have two to three holes in the ground, and the pumps will be buried. Buz said he thought that the holes were for vents. Norm said there will be vents in there, but there is also covers that can be accessed if someone needs to go back in and pull these pumps. Rhoda said that the plans don't show any landscaping, just native grasses. Norm said that they have landscaping in the water project, so there is a possibility of moving some of this around. This plan is just trying to show a section. The landscaping will be done though. PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 15 Discussion of Fence Detail, Wildridee Pumn Station (cont John felt that it was a good solution, and said "let's go with it." Jack asked what one of the little boxes on the plans were. Norm said that it was an electric transformer. This is one of the other things that can be hidden by planting shrubs around, but it can't be gotten rid of. There has to be power. Patti asked why they couldn't find better places for these things to be at. Rhoda said that it's the last thing anyone thinks of, they are all over the place, and no one thinks that they are real pretty. Norm said that this was one of the first things put in though. John asked if it required some action. Rick said yes. Rhoda moved to approve, and Patti 2nd the motion of the fence design. Jack Hunn had further discussion by asking if a condition is desired regarding the shrubs and trees. Rhoda said that it was as submitted, but then asked Norm if he submitted it with landscaping in front of it. Norm said yes, so Rhoda added the condition of adding dense bushes or trees being placed in front of the chain-link fence to hide the pump from the Wildridge Road entrance. Buz had a question also. He said that when this proposal originally came in, they had talked about placing a sign on the open wall. Now that there will be no sign on it, what will be the finish going to be. Norm said it will be sandblasted finish. There is a V -notch relief at two foot center. Buz asked if there were any way to screen the transformer at all so not to hide it as a commercial area. Norm said there is plans to do this. The vote took place and all was in favor of the proposal with the condition of adding shrubs. Rhoda asked Norm how they could go about getting the Town to pay for a sign to put up there, and will they aflow a sign to be put up there. They all began joking about what they could put on the sign. Rick said that the Town is just beginning to start their budget process, so maybe a letter from the Wildridge Covenants Committee, or someone, like P & Z. Rhoda moved then to adopt a request to the Town Council Budget Committee to push for a Wildridge sign be placed on the pump station. John said that they could include this in other business, and asked for a 2nd motion. Jack Hunn 2nd the motion. John asked for further discussion and because there was none, the vote took place and the motion passed unanimously. Norm did want to comment about a question regarding the lighting. Actually the only lighting ON ,01� PANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES August 3,1993 Page 16 Discussion of Fence Detail, Wildridge Pump Station (cont.) that he had a call concern about was to not put a big powerful light out there. They will have to go according to code with a down light of 60 watts with cylinder brackets. Rhoda moved to approve the lighting with no more wattage than 60. Patti Dixon 2nd the proposal. The vote took place with all in favor. Jack moved to approve the minutes for the July 20 meeting. Rhoda 2nd the motion. All approved. John asked if there were any other business. There was none. Jack moved to adjourn the meeting, and Buz 2nd the motion The meeting adjourned at 9:05 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Vari Reichardt Assistant Charlette Pascuzzi Recording Secretary