PZC Minutes 012098Record of Proceedings
Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
January 20, 1998
Regular Meeting
The Regular Meeting of the Town of Avon Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order
by Chairman Andrew Karow at 6:00 p.m., January 20, 1998, in the Council Chambers, Avon
Municipal Building, 400 Benchmark Road, Avon, CO 81620.
Members Present Staff Present
Mike Dantas Jacquie Halbumt, Recording Secretary
Chris Evans George Harrison, Planner
Anne Fehlner Mike Matzko, Community Development Director
Andrew Karow Steve Hodges, Community Service Officer
Michael Schneider
Beth Stanley
Agenda
Roll Call
All Commission members were present except Commissioner Sue Railton.
Additions and Amendments to the Agenda
George Harrison suggested that the Commission review the final design of Lot 2, Block 2,
Wildridge subdivision before reviewing the concept design of Lot C because Lot C would take a
longer period of time.
Conflicts of Interest
Commissioner Fehlner declared a Conflict of Interest for Lot 2, Block 2, Wildridge Subdivision.
Consent Agenda
A. Approval of the December 16, 1997, Planning & Zoning
Commission Meeting Minutes
Motion
Commissioner Stanley moved to approve the consent agenda as presented. Commissioner Evans
seconded the motion and it passed unanimously.
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Final Design Review
A. Lot 2, Block 2, Wildridge Subdivision - RAS Fourplex
Project Type: Residential Fourplex
Property Owner: Tom Friesen & Rich Couples
Applicant: Tab Bonidy
Address: 2555 Old Trail Road
George Harrison reviewed project as outlined in the staff report.
Commissioner Stanley asked if Avon still required gravel at the end of driveways for new
construction.
Mr. Harrison said it was an experiment from last season and the results were mixed. He said it
was still a standard note to be included on the plans, but it would be reevaluated next building
season. Commissioner Dantas commented that the ILC seemed late.
Mr. Harrison said it would be an additional ILC to the ILC showing proper vertical and
horizontal foundation location. He said a ridge height ILC would not be required because the
project was not within 3 feet of its limitation.
Commissioner Dantas questioned if it wouldn't be better to do it toward the end of the project,
but not once the asphalt was down.
Mr. Harrison said yes and Staff would work with the applicant to have it submitted when the
walls were done, which depended on the phasing of the construction.
Commissioner Dantas said he would hate to have them submit the ILC at the end of the project
and then have to tear it all down.
Tab Bonidy, with Tab Associates, Inc. discussed the project with the Commission. He said he
had originally met with town staff, including the town engineer, on the retaining wall that ran
along the slope maintenance, drainage and snow storage easement. He said he had it graded at
2:1 per the town's standards; however, the town said it didn't want any cuts within that area. He
said he understood it was the town's policy and not a planning regulation. He said his intention
was to grade the easement to 2:1 and make it a continuous look all the way to the driveway. He
said they could accomplish that by eliminating the boulder wall that they considered an eye sore
and unnecessary. He continued that a soils engineer verified, and offered to write a letter to the
town, that the cuts would not undermine the road because of the soils. Mr. Bonidy commented
that the town engineer admitted that once they were on site and started the grading that it might
make more sense to do as originally designed. He said the wall was 4'x 260' and wouldn't look
as attractive as the continuous slope. He asked the Commission to allow the 2:1 slope if
approved by town staff and the town engineer.
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Commissioner Evans asked about the proposed 12 required/12 available parking spaces.
Mr. Harrison said there was a typo and should read 10 required/12 available because 2 spaces
were required per unit plus 2 guest spaces.
Commissioner Evans said the grading plan made a lot of sense to him, but of course, needed the
town engineer's approval. He said if the wall had to stay, he would like to see Mr. Bonidy break
up the linearity of the wall by introducing some element of curvature to it. Commissioner Evans
said it appeared they were going to the western corner side of site for sewer hookup, but the
limits of construction didn't reflect it.
Mr. Bonidy said they would revegetate the trench.
Commissioner Stanley said she agreed with Commissioner Evans about the wall. She inquired
where the trash dumpster was located.
Mr. Bonidy said individual trashcans would be used.
Commissioner Schneider said he agreed with the grading as long as Mr. Bonidy got permission
from the Town Engineer. He said the rest of the project looked good.
Commissioner Dantas said he thought the Town should be consistent with grading.
Mr. Bonidy reiterated that it was a town policy and not a planning regulation and it was
determined on a case-by-case basis by what was best for the Town.
Chairperson Karow said the town engineer had made a policy statement.
Mr. Bonidy again reviewed why he believed he should be able to make the cuts.
Chairperson Karow said he had to support staff and stick with what the town engineer had said
because if it was cut and then fell down, he did not want to be responsible. He said the visual
impact of the wall would be enormous and thought Commission Evans had some great ideas on
breaking up its linearity. He also suggested adding some vegetation, but otherwise, thought it
was in conformance with the guidelines.
Mr. Harrison said the town staffs position was once they were on site to investigate the soils, and
if the soils were conducive to eliminating the retaining wall, the retaining wall could be
eliminated. He continued that if the soils were not conducive, the retaining wall would be
required as presented in the plans.
Commissioner Stanley asked Mr. Bonidy what he thought about breaking up the linearity of the
wall if it remained.
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Mr. Bonidy said it was a steep lot and to get from the easement to the driveway would result in
either two 2' walls, one 4' wall or a wall that bulged out with some landscaping. He said they
were trying to achieve the least amount of impact to the landscaping area. He repeated that he
hoped the soils tests were indicative of eliminating the wall.
Mr. Harrison said he anticipated that Staff would be working with the applicant on the retaining
wall and would try to resolve it at the staff level. However, he continued, if necessary it would
come back before the Commission.
Motion
Commissioner Evans moved to approved Final Design for a fourplex on Lot 2, Block 2,
Wildridge Subdivision, as depicted on the application and plan set dated received January 13,
1998, subject to the following conditions:
1. The driveway's northern retaining wall will not exceed 4 ft. in height
2. Proof of ownership of the property be provided
3. An ILC showing both the vertical and horizontal location of all retaining walls be
required prior to TCO/CO
4. Northern most retaining wall may be removed with permission of Town staff and
Town Engineer and graded to a 2:1 slope
Commissioner Schneider seconded the motion and it passed with Commissioner Fehlner
abstaining.
Public Hearing
None scheduled
Concept Design Review
A. Lot C, Avon Center at Beaver Creek Subdivision
Project Type: Mixed Use Development
Property Owner: Vail Associates Investment, Inc.
Applicant: Mark Donaldson Architects
Address: 0160 W. Beaver Creek Blvd.
Mike Matzko reviewed the project as outlined in the staff report.
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Mark Donaldson was present to discuss the concept design review of Lot C. He said the same
team of Tom Gart, Ed O'Brien, and Steve Elkin that had developed the Seasons were back
together to purchase and develop Lot C. He said they had brought Tim Levine, Vice President of
Signature Resorts, Inc. to the table as well.
Mr. Donaldson said he recognized that this was an informal meeting for a concept review subject
to adjustments and appreciated that the commission members would provide their feedback and
comments.
Mr. Donaldson said Mr. Levine planned the time-share to be a total of 90 units in two equal
phases. He said they were proposing 2 five -story towers.
Mr. Donaldson said they were aware of the traffic impacts.
Mr. Donaldson said there would be access to the lot from east if it was okay with the owner of
Lot B. He said it would probably be access to underground parking for the resort.
Mr. Donaldson said they might want to discuss a single road cut on the west side of the lot from
Benchmark Road.
Mr. Donaldson said the underlying theme that he had discussed over the years with staff was to
maximize density and create more of a pedestrianized society. He said these items were
consistent with Town Center zone district per the Avon comprehensive plan.
Mr. Donaldson said the lodging building was not truly a residential property, but more of
vacation -ownership or hotel.
Mr. Donaldson said they were proposing about 1500 s.f. of retail activities under the operation of
signature resorts. They suggested a deli, small grocery store, etc ... and office/administration.
Also proposed were a hotel, maybe some other housing, a 5,000 s.f. restaurant (Bennigans,
Fridays, etc...) with 60% seating area.
Commissioner Stanley said the plans didn't call for retail space, but Mr. Donaldson had
mentioned some. Mr. Donaldson said they had 11000 s.f. for retail or office, but through
discussions and analyzing Avon's market, thought that retail would not be a hot commodity in
the Town Center zone district.
Commissioner Stanley pointed out that unless you're a guest at the hotel, there would be no
reason to be a pedestrian on the incorporated pedestrian path. Mr. Donaldson said they wanted
the frontage area to have retail. Mr. Steve Elkin said they were trying to develop for the existing
need.
Mr. Donaldson said they were trying to change the west part of the lot from Town Center to
PUD.
Mr. Donaldson said they would dedicate 9 -10 units to employee deed -restricted housing. He
said they might also offer some employee housing elsewhere in Avon.
Mr. Donaldson referenced a memo on parking and reviewed it. He said they needed to spend
some time on the vacation -ownership spaces. He continued that there were 90 units multiplied
by 1.4 = 125 spaces. He reiterated that a vacation ownership was just like a hotel and wanted to
find a middle ground on Avon's proposed parking regulations.
Mr. Tim Levine, VP Architecture with Signature Resorts, said his company had 69 resort
properties in Hawaii, across the U.S., the Caribbean, the UK, Spain and Austria. He said they
had a lot of experience with how resort properties operate.
Mr. Levine said there would be 4500 owners to utilize the rooms, without being faced with a bill
at the end of the week. That way, they would spend more money in Avon.
Mr. Levine said the majority of the units would only have one car because people are travelling
from other areas to be here.
Mr. Levine's study showed that time-share units with a lockoff only needed 1.2 spaces per unit
and 1.4 in peak conditions. He pointed out that these units did not have lockoffs, so the demand
should be less. He said he thought their proposed 1.4 spaces should be more than enough.
Commissioner Dantas asked for a figure without a lockoff, but Mr. Levine said they had not done
that research.
Also, Mr. Levine said that it was very unlikely that the building could be converted to anything
else. He said there was less than a 3% default rate for people who decide they don't like
timeshare. He continued that 90% of the 3% have had a major change in lifestyle. He concluded
that once people buy a timeshare, there was a 97% chance they wouldn't change their minds.
After much discussion on parking, Commissioner Fehlner suggested that they do some parking
research on what works at their properties and get back to the Commission.
Commissioner Fehlner addressed how and where the buildings were located.
Commissioner Fehlner addressed the buildings on the east, southeast, and southwest sides that
were 3-5 stories tall.
Commissioner Fehlner said she thought they were creating the least amount of frontage because
the buildings were pushed back to the most southern point of the site. She said it also created a
narrrow valley.
Commissioner Fehlner said people wouldn't stop between 5 story buildings on a pedestrian path.
She said she viewed it as a wall and there was no visual means of circulation or natural light.
Commissioner Fehlner also suggested that they do a sun study because she thought with the 5
story buildings that the sun would not hit any part of the plaza based on what was happening
with the Seasons.
Commissioner Fehlner said she didn't think anyone would sit outside with no sun even in the
summer.
Commissioner Fehlner said all the open spaces, neat features, and views were facing north and
looking over parking. She said she didn't quite understand that concept.
Commissioner Fehlner also suggested opening up the corner to create a knuckle in the pedestrian
path.
Mr. Donaldson said his design came from ideas in the comprehensive plan and that he had tried
many different designs and this one seemed to work the best.
Mr. Donaldson said signage was of great importance and people would be able to see it from the
highway.
Mr. Donaldson said it was their intention to draw pedestrians off of the mall and walk through
the property, but it wasn't conveyed well with the drawings.
Commissioner Fehlner said her concerns were not the building size or height, but the
arrangement of the buildings with no penetration through the site.
Commissioner Fehlner said she thought they needed a node to say "Hey here's the entry to the
Seasons" and "Here's the entry to the new building".
Commissioner Evans said he agreed with a lot of Anne's points, but especially the sun study.
He said he didn't think the issue was the mass of the building, but the placement. He said he
wouldn't be opposed to adding stories on the building. His problem was that the buildings were
oriented toward the post office.
Mr. Donaldson said a sixth floor over underground parking didn't work economically.
Commissioner Evans discussed the pedestrian mall issue (re: town comprehensive plan goal 2B)
with a mix of commercial and retail. He said when he thought of a successful pedestrian mall, he
thought of Pearl Street Mall in Boulder and Nathaniel Hall in Boston. He said these malls were
not easy to get to, but they created synergy by bringing in different activities.
Commissioner Evans said he thought they should look at "how can they bring retail into the
development" rather than "it doesn't work right now, maybe we'll bring it in later".
Commissioner Evans acknowledged that retail didn't work right now in that area, but if they
brought in a good restaurant, bar, deli, etc.. , they could make it happen.
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Commissioner Evans suggested making the pedestrian pathway part of the mall.
Commissioner Fehlner referenced a picture in the Avon comprehensive plan that exemplified the
concept.
Commissioner Evans said there really wasn't anything to do in Avon at night and this would be
an opportunity to do something.
Mr. Donaldson asked if a reconfigured pedestrian path was the direction Commissioner Fehlner
was looking toward. She said off the top of her head, yes.
Commissioner Stanley said she thought people who wanted to use the bus system would not
walk to the front of the Avon Center, but rather to the Recreation Center. Mr. Ed O'Brien said he
thought those wanting to go to Vail would want to take the extra walk instead of change buses.
Commissioner Stanley asked where the snow storage was located and Mr. Donaldson said it was
around the landscape perimeters. He said like all other businesses in town, they would also
export some of it.
Commissioner Stanley also said she felt strongly about the sun corridors.
Commissioner Stanley said her biggest concern was the parking reduction and how people would
approach the area and walk through it.
Commissioner Schneider said most of his concerns had been addressed. He said he was
concerned with the setbacks and the parking. Mike Matzko said they had not talked about the set
backs at any length, but he thought the items brought up about sun and corridors would be taken
into consideration.
Commissioner Dantas said he used to live on West Beaver Creek Blvd. and would walk to the
Seasons building at nighttime. He said he wanted to convey that the alleyway in front (north) of
the Seasons is like a wind tunnel. He said if they connected the buildings with the walkway it
might help.
Commissioner Dantas also said it would be ideal to have a place that people could go to at night
in Avon.
Commissioner Dantas said parking was an issue that always bothered him. He ran some
numbers and gave the hotel 152 spaces, time share 90 spaces, office space 51, restaurant 50 for a
total of 343 from 378 left 35 spaces for employees to park. He said his gut instinct told him that
was not enough.
Chairperson Karow said he saw no problems with the density, massing, or access.
Chairperson Karrow said he was comfortable with on or off-site employee housing.
Chairperson Karow continued that the comprehensive plan mentioned a hub with a range of uses,
but thought they had a narrow range of use.
Chairperson Karow said he thought they could use greater pedestrian connections and distinct
architecture.
Chairperson Karow said the comprehensive plan also called for an overall pedestrian connection
between the Seasons, Rec. Center, Avon Center, etc...
Chairperson Karow continued that another major concerns were that the retail space was small in
comparison to the other uses. He said they needed to create a characteristic of the project that
would create a demand for retail space. He used Beaver Creek as an example of limited parking
that used public transportation and did well. He suggested they looked into the future and create
a demand.
Chairperson Karow said that stronger pedestrian connection were needed. He expressed concern
that the frontage on West Beaver Creek Blvd. was all for parking because it wasn't very inviting.
Chairperson Karow suggested putting phase I of the time-share where the hotel was and put the
hotel parallel with W.B.C. Blvd.
Mr. Donaldson said he thought Avon was divided in half and the west half did not support retail.
He said he thought it was just as important to reestablish a bed base as it was to bring in retail
and hoped the Commission would acknowledge that.
No formal action is taken for a concept design review.
Other Business
Mike Matzko said the Town Council had reviewed the proposed changes to the P&Z Rules,
Regulations and Procedures as well as the Zoning Code He said they were satisfied and would
adopt the changes at the next regular Council meeting. He outlined two minor changes as: the
role of the Commission on town project will be advisory only. The Council does want and
appreciate the Commission's input, but the final decisions will be made by the Council.
Secondly, minor utilitarian projects in the town are exempt from Commission review. Of course,
he continued, that major projects would still come before the Commission for review.
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Adjourn
Commissioner Fehlner made a motion to adjourn the meeting. It was seconded by
Commissioner Stanley and the meeting adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
qquelHalburnt
Recording Secretary
M. Danta
C. Evans
A. F
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S. Railton
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