PZC MInutes 062095RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
June 20, 1995
The Regular Meeting of the Town of Avon Planning and Zoning Commission was called
to order by Chairperson Jack Hunn at 7:30 PM, June 20, 1995 in the Council Chambers,
Avon Municipal Building, 400 Benchmark Road, Avon, Colorado. Members absent were
Sue Railton and Beth Stanley.
Members Present: Jack Hunn, Rhoda
Schneiderman,
Bill Sargis, Henry
Vest, Buz Reynolds
Staff Present: Mike Matzo, Director
of Community
Development, Sheila
Kremski, Recording
Secretary
CONCEPTUAL REVIEW (6:15 pm worksession)
Lot 1 Block 2 Wildridge Subdivision Fourplex
Lot 38 Block 2 Wildridge Subdivision Duplex
Lot 18/19 Block 1 Benchmark at Beaver Creek Subdivision, Butler
Lot 71 Block 3 Wildridge Subdivision Wildridge Subdivision, Kelsall
Lot 10 Block 4, Wildridge, McDonald
Lot 19 Block 2, Wildridge Subdivision
Lot 49 Block 4 Wildridge Subdivision Duplex
CONFLICTS OF INTEREST
Henry Vest announced a conflict of interest with a consent agenda item Lot 8, Block 2,
Wildridge Subdivision, Deck Addition.
Bill Sargis formally moved this conceptual item.
Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
CONSENT AGENDA
The following items were scheduled on the Amended Consent Agenda:
1. Lot 79, Block 1, Wildridge Subdivision, Landscape, Cohen
2. Lot 8, Block 2, Wildridge Subdivision, Deck Addition, Vest
Lot 30, Block 2, Wildridge Subdivision, Modification, Ambrosio Res.
4. Approval of the June 6, 1995 Planning and Zoning Meeting Minutes
Rhoda Schneiderman move.i to approved the consent agenda as amended. Lot 30, Block
2, Wildridge Subdivision, '_Modification, was added to the agenda. Seconded by Bill
Sargis. Motion carries unanimously. Henry Vest did not vote due to a conflict of interest.
FINAL DESIGN REVIEW
Lot 49 Block 4 Wildridge Subdivision Final Design Review Duplex
This item was removed from conceptual review to final design review.
Mike Matzko stated the site is a .57 acre, south facing lot on Longsun Lane. The project
is 4607 s.f. duplex, 2252 s.f on the south unit, and 2355 on the north unit. Each unit has
a two car garage. There are two additional exterior parking spaces adjacent to the south
unit garage. The building follows the site contours. Materials include cedar T&G siding,
stucco siding, redwood siding and cedar shake roofing.
Todd Morrison was present representing MDM Developers. The applicant has meet with
the town on many occasions to properly comply with the design review process.
Henry Vest was concerned with the drainage.
Todd replied that Norm Wood gave suggestions for positive drainage. The result was
varying the garages slightly. Positive drainage was created by taking the northside duplex
and increasing its slab elevation and running that down keeping it away plus creating a
percent that will be away from the house. Keeping the flow heading down toward the
northend of the south unit.
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Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
Lot 49 Block 4 Wildridge Subdivision Final Design Review Duplex(Con.'t)
Chairperson Hunn questioned the turning radius on the drivewway. As one would come
in the driveway off the street and initiate a turn to go to the western unit, does that radius
work?
Todd replied yes.
Chairperson Hunn noted that the driveway grades looked to be within the towns
guidelines. Cedar shake for the roofing material, warm colors are consistent with the
natural colors except for the colder gray color. The landscape plan shows a lot of blue
grass seed, does the applicant plan to move that?
Todd replied that he was not sure. Todd would like to leave that initial downslope of the
street into the lot and leave that as much natural scape as possible. In back it is a little
more bluegrass than just natural scape.
Chairperson Hunn stated that bluegrass seed suggests useable lawn and goes property line
to property line with no transition back to the natural vegetation. Chairperson Hunn
suggested investing in sod or seed in that area, otherwise try to revegetate naturally.
Todd would like to minimize this.
Chairperson Hunn questioned the grouping of trees at the bottom of the site. Is the sewer
tap in that area?
Todd replied yes. They are sitting looking at a water filtration house and there is a tract of
land that is basically open space which creates a corridor for views. The Applicant would
be willing to move those trees toward the house.
Chairperson Hunn now supports the idea understanding the applicants intent.
Rhoda Schneiderman question how the lot would be watered?
Todd replied some bubblers and sprinkler heads would be installed.
Rhoda Schneiderman questioned the elevation change from one garage to another?
Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
Lot 49 Block 4 Wildridge Subdivision Final Design Review Duplex(Con.'t)
Todd answered a total of 2 1/2 feet.
The applicant requested a final approval from the Commission due to the cancellation of
the July 4th, 1995 Meeting.
Chairperson Hunn asked staff if this approval was possible procedurally.
Mike Matzko discussed it with the town attorney and his opinion was that technically it is
probably OK but the perception is that it did not appear on the agenda as final design
review so anyone wanting to attend the final design review would not have the
opportunity. Mike stated it was the boards call.
Chairperson Hunn asked the Commissions feeling about granting final design approval.
Buzz Reynolds stated that it has been done in the past.
Rhoda Schneiderman stated it has not been done for 2 years.
Buzz Reynolds noted that the applicant has come to the conceptual review with more than
what most applicants do. Buz felt since the July 4th meeting was canceled and it is
building season it would be unfair to hold up this project.
Rhoda Schneiderman agreed the packet was complete enough for a final design review.
Rhoda does not feel comfortable voting for the project due to the elevation. Rhoda
explained that the applicant can have all the good intentions in the world but if the
applicant changes a thing they will have to come back anyway for a resubmittal. Rhoda
also felt that it is the end of June and if the applicant was concerned about time the project
they should have been here in April.
Bill Sargis did not have a problem with giving the project a final design approval.
Chairperson Hunn noted that staff wanted to moved toward giving clean approvals and
since the color of the stucco should come back, the rear elevations come back, and
suggestions on the landscape plan were not complete this would therefore not be a clean
approval.
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Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
Lot 49 Block 4 Wildridge Subdivision Final Design Review Duplex(Con.'t)
Mike Matzko wanted to clarify in making that comment he was focusing on a specific
architectural element and in the case of the rear elevation this is true. But with
landscaping and colors it may comeback due to its timing in the construction process.
Chairperson Hunn explained that procedurally if an applicant is prepared for final it helps
future agendas as well as the applicant. If we set this precedence the Commission should
make sure they are comfortable with this decision.
Mike Matzko suggested in the future the agenda should be amended to reflect the change.
Putting the project on both the conceptual and final review agendas.
Buz wanted to clarify for the record the only reason he brought this up is because there is
only one Planning and Zoning Meeting in July.
Bill Sarais motioned to remove Lot 49, Block 4, Wildridge Subdivision from the
conceptual review agenda and put on the final design review agenda to approve with the
following conditions:
CONDITIONS:
1. the applicant bring back a revised landscape plan;
2. the applicant comes back with a revised color;
3. the applicant satisfies the height elevation with staff approval.
Henry Vest questioned if Rhoda's concern on the rear elevation was the stacking of the
three windows. Maybe losing the two middle windows on the bottom floor.
The applicant replied OK.
Chairperson Hunn noted to staff that one of the elevations measures over 35 feet.
The applicant was aware of that and they changed that to a 7-12 pitch and it comes in
below 35 feet.
Seconded by Buz Reynolds. Motion carries. Rhoda Schneiderman nay.
Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
Lot 20 Block 3 Wildridge Subdivision Modification Duplex
Mike Matzko stated this is a design identification for a residential duplex. The
modifications to the building include a new roofline and sod roofing. Modifications to the
site include new retaining walls along the driveway.
Brian Vedder was present as the applicant. Brian explained that he broke the massing to
fit the site better which accomplished making the building easier to build. Starting over
from scratch took some of the architectural noise out the design and now the applicant is
back to the slopping roof elements and flat roofs with a vegetated edge.
Chairperson Hunn noted that in the application there were some site modifications.
Driveway position was amended on the site.
Brian replied that on the eastern boundary is was not intended as a driveway. In the future
the applicant hopes to own a ski -boat and store it in the garage but once you pull the car
and boat into the garage there is not a way to get the car out. Brian planned on pulling it
completely through probably only 5 times a year. The area would be landscaped since its
use is minimal.
Chairperson Hunn explained that from the staffs report they are concern about the
driveway encroaching into the utility easement in two locations.
Brian stated that since Mike Matzko has come into the project mid -way there were some
things he may not have been aware of, for instance, that the site plan and the shape of the
driveway was approved a year ago May.
Chairperson Hunn asked the applicant if this driveway configuration was consistent with
the previous approval?
Brian replied yes.
Mike Matzko was referring to the plans stamped on May 16, 1995.
Chairperson Hunn stated that there was a prior approval that approved the driveway only.
Chairperson Hunn asked staff that procedurally to have approved something like these
encroachments, would a variance be required or permission from utilities companies be
required had we gone through proper procedure even though it was a. year ago?
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Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
Lot 20 Block 3 Wildridge Subdivision Modification Duplex (Con.'t)
Brian replied a variance was applied for and granted.
Buz Reynolds questioned how much sod was added to the building.
Brian did not know.
Rhoda Schneiderman replied 100% since there was not any sod proposed on the previous
building.
Chairperson Hunn stated that staff has record of the front -yard setback variance request
that was approved by the Commission on May 2, 1994. It does not say specifically what
was allowed to encroach into those setbacks but it does grant a variance.
Mike Matzko stated that as being a new staff member he would have to rely on the
standard definitions of setbacks as they are defined in most zoning ordinances and
variances. Typically you get an exhibit with a variance showing specifically what the
variance is being granted for.
Buz Reynolds asked the pitch of the driveway?
Brian replied he could bring the turns in between 8% and 9% and the straight-aways will
be between 10% and 11%. Overall length of the driveway is 650 feet and the rise is 60
feet.
Chairperson Hunn questioned what the fire department thought about the driveway?
Brian replied he did not know.
Mike Matzko stated that the fire department said the site would not be accessible by fire
truck. The length of the driveway in more densely developed projects would require a
turnaround for a fire truck. From a design review stand point it should not influence that.
Henry Vest questioned where a particular long shed on the top level dropped into.
Brian explained that it was a stair access from the stairwell to the master suite.
Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
Lot 20 Block 3 Wildridge Subdivision Modification Duplex (Con -'t)
Chairperson Hunn noted that he did not support it before but the modifications makes it
better.
Bill Sargis moved to approve Lot 20, Block 3, Wildridge Subdivision, Modifications.
Seconded by Rhoda Schneiderman. Motion unanimously carries.
Lot 85 Block 4 Wildridge Subdivision Final Design Review Meyerstein
Mike Matzko stated the Commission reviewed this project on June 6, 1995 and tabled it in
anticipation of revised landscape plan, paint colors and front entry design.
Michael Schneiderman was present on behalf of the applicant to explain the revisions
made to the project. The dry stack stone retaining wall at south edge of driveway was
discussed. This revision can be seen on the revised site plan. Also the grades around this
area have been revised. This was a safety issue and made a lot of sense and it also carries
the same feeling of the wall at the driveway side on the north side of the house.
Landscaping has be relocated around the entire perimeter of the house and not in just one
area. The quantities remain relatively the same only tree size and type are recommended
in the DRB planning guidelines and no where are quantities of landscaping addressed. The
entry front door has been redesigned at the DRB's request to be more appealing.
Recessed entry was recommended and designed and the changes can be seen on the
revised floor plans and elevations. The exterior elevations have been recolored a more
taupe/beige color. The site plan has been revised to reflect a request to move the house
again four more feet to the west. At the conceptual meeting it was requested to move
four feet than after the last meeting it was requested to move an additional four feet. The
owners still would like the metal roof. The roof would be 24 inch gauge, 12-16 inch
spacing on the standing seam, and a low gloss finish. The letter from the manufacturer
was noted again indicating the roofs low gloss.
Chairperson Hunn wanted to clarify if the drawings in the Commission packets do reflect
the drawings that the applicant is referring with the latest changes?
Michael Schneider replied yes.
Chairperson Hunn recalled that the home was originally 21 feet of pavement from the
garage door to edge of driveway. That was than improved to 26 feet in the last meeting.
Now it was just mentioned by Michael Schneider in his presentation that it was moved
another 4 feet. Chairperson Hunn would expect to see a 30 foot section of asphalt and the
drawings indicate 26 feet. Do we know?
Mike Matzko replied no.
Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
Lot 85 Block 4 Wildridge Subdivision Final Design Review Me erstein Con.'t)
Chairperson Hunn mentioned some of his original concerns were the crowding of the
home toward the east and some of the difficulty that created with the driveway in terms of
maneuvering, safety, and grade that is pushed against the property line. The applicant
begun to resolve that with a retaining wall instead of a 1:1 slope on south edge of the
driveway but on the east edge of the driveway Chairperson Hunn believes that boulder
wall needs to turn the corner and continue which would require some approval since it
would be in the utility easement. Chairperson Hunn is reading that grade to be in excess
of a 2:1 and also presenting a safety hazard. Other concerns were landscaping and the
entry image in the terms of its form. The form has not changed but the treatment of the
door has changed and Chairperson Hunn continues to be concerned about that element on
the building. The rest of the building seems to fit into the neighborhood quite well. The
final concern has to do with the metal roof. The Commission has to make a determination
that the metal roof meets our criteria one of those being that it will not create glare if it
would be offensive to a neighboring property and Chairperson Hunn would not be
satisfied that that would be the case on this site. Chairperson Hunn does think this site
with a metal roof would create glare that would be offensive to someone across the street.
Rhoda Schneiderman had a concern with the roof also. In the winter Rhoda did not think
it would be as much of a problem since the sun is so low in the sky but in the summer
when the sun is directly overhead there will be glare to the people above. If it was a small
section of the roof it would not be so bad but since it is the whole roof it would be too
much of a glare. Rhoda was not crazy about the front entryway but with the addition of
the trees on the top it will not be as noticeable to the street.
Bill Sargis had no comment.
Henry Vest questioned if the applicant had a photograph of a similar front door.
Michael Schneider explained that the owner was from Switzerland and there are a lot of
metal roofs there and many houses that do not look that conventional by our standards.
Henry Vest has a problem with the entry since it sits against such a uniform house.
Rhoda Schneiderman asked if the applicant has looked at any other roof material.
Michael Schneider stated that the applicant discussed a fiberglass shake but the applicant
is insisting on a metal roof.
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Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
Lot 85 Block 4 Wildridge Subdivision Final Design Review Meyerstein (Con.'t)
Buz Reynolds was concerned with the north elevation of the building, this wall other than
the entry feature, falls flat. The entry feature breaks it up but there are still two large plans
on both sides that needed some character. The reflection of the roof will be down hill.
Since the pitch of the roof is 27 1/2%, the summer sun will reflect. Buz can live with the
entry.
Chairperson Hunn questioned the small roof that has been added over the entry door. Did
the applicant do that because the Commission asked the applicant to do that.
Michael Schneider replied the architect added this. The applicant does not like this small
roof.
Chairperson Hunn asked the Commission if they liked this.
Rhoda Schneiderman feels the canopy does not add anything to it.
Mike Matzko mentioned the driveway grade needed to be evaluated again by staff to make
sure it was in compliance.
Rhoda Schneiderman moved to approve Lot 85, Block 4, Wildridge Subdivision, Final
Design Review Meyerstein with the following conditions:
CONDITIONS:
1. The applicant bring back an alternative roof material;
2. The front door roof element or overhang element be removed and the front
door design be restored to the previous second set of plans;
3. Strongly suggest the front left tower element have added interest brought back
to Planning and Zoning Commission for approval:
4. The town engineer review the driveway entrance grades and if that revision
effects the design of the building or any setbacks it return to Planning
and Zoning Commission for approval.
Seconded by Bill Sargis. Motion carries. Henry Vest and Buz Reynolds nay.
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Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
Lot 7 Block 4 Wildridge Subdivision Final Design Review
Mike Matzko stated the site is a narrow, southwest -facing lot of 1.46 acres that slopes up
from the Wildridge Road. Existing vegetation is fairly uniform, including sagebrush
and other dryland species. The proposed structure is a southwest -style duplex, 3380 s.f.
on the west unit. Roofing is flat, with V ballast, exterior walls are of sand colored stucco;
landscaping is primarily native vegetation.
Eric Vogelman was present representing the applicant. From the conceptual meeting there
were three areas of concern, the mirror image aspect, interest details on the west portion;
and a breakup of the taller retaining wall. All of these items are addressed on the new
submittal. The west wall had a couple of windows added and some beam extension
features. A single step was added to the retaining wall. A small area of extended parking
was also area to the west about 10 feet. The breakup of the mirror image had to do
mostly with the bringing out one side and altering the overhang. The driveway grades are
8% maximum and maneuvering space. Snow storage goes straight off the wall. The
tallest retaining wall is 6 feet and as they go uphill they diminish. Exterior lighting has
lights on both sides of the garage and on exit doors with down lighting. The landscape
plan involves reclaiming the area and no grass or no graveled areas, no detailed garden
planning. Juniper, poplar trees and some pines. The driveway is paved asphalt.
Rhoda Schneiderman felt the changes in the south elevation were subtle but effective
enough to take away the mirror image problem.
Rhoda Schneiderman moved to approve Lot 7, Block 4, Wildridge Subdivision, Final
Design Approval with the following conditions:
CONDITIONS:
1. Landscape brought back with trees substituted for bushes;
2. A drip irrigation be installed;
3. Eric Vogalman has volunteered to bring back color samples.
Seconded Bill Sargis. Motion unanimously carries.
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Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
Lot 11 Block 1 Wildridge Subdivision, Final Design Review, Hiller
Mike Matzko stated the site is a step, west -facing, 2.36 acre site located on Wildridge
Road adjacent to Tract L. The majority of the lot slopes approximately 30 to 35% .
Adjacent to the road, particularly a the north end, the slope increases in excess of 50%.
The amount of excavation needed to access the lot is significant. The design is basically a
repetition of a single unit.
Mike Matzko asked to represent the applicant.
Rhoda Schneiderman moved to table Lot 11, Block 1, Wildridge Subdivision, Final Design
Review, Hiller.
Bill Sargis Seconded. Motion carries. Buz Reynolds abstains.
OTHER BUSINESS
1. Chairperson Hunn wanted to mention certain events at the June 6, 1995 Planning and
Zoning Meeting. At this meeting some unfortunate things happened. In part of the
dialogue it was suggested to an applicant that we may be acting in an arbitrary manner. In
Chairperson Hunn's opinion that should be said after the meeting under the Other
Business discussion. The subject was the Meyerstein Residence. If Mr. Meyerstein
wanted to follow up on staffs suggestion the town could have some litigation on its hands
or at least an appeal to council with some pretty good dialogue from staff supporting their
case.
Chairperson Hunn also wanted to discuss the current frustration with the Design Review
Guidelines. The Commission has a tendency to stretch them and mold them to allow us to
do a better job of improving projects for the town to create a better product within the
town. Mike's motivation seemed to be that the Commission can not make of rules, and
making statements like "your personal opinion", or "I just don't like it" is not going to
hold up if someone presses the issue on an appeal basis. Even though we may not agree
that these guidelines are the best tool, and we could probably improve them, Chairperson
Hunn feels they have to be used until their is a better tool. If we can just couch our
comments within the frame work of those Design Guidelines, I think we can get the job
done.
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Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
Other Business (Con. o
Mike Matzko apologized to the Commission for his behavior at the June 6, 1995 Planning
and Zoning Commission Meeting on this topic that Chairperson Hunn has brought tip.
Mike was very emotional about the subject and his comment was inappropriate.
Bill Sargis mentioned that after about four or five hours this Commission starts losing its
ability to perform its duties the way it is supposed to.
Chairperson Hunn suggested since the items have been published on the agenda maybe the
applicant would be willing to allow the Commission to continue the item at a speciai
meeting to finish the agenda.
2. Rhoda Schneiderman mentioned T.J. Conner's trash enclosures and questioned if they
were approved by the Town`?
Mike Matzko spoke with Norm about these enclosures and said there were a number of
revisions on the project and remembered that it did come through. Mike did not check the
plans.
Rhoda formally requested that the trash enclosures be brought back to the next meeting.
Chairperson Hunn noted that stucco has been put on some of the retaining walls and the
requirement was that all of them get stucco.
Mike Matzko stated that T.J. Conner did make one request through an intermediary that
certain areas not be stuccoed. In the loading dock area which goes down below grade the
trucks would tend to bump against it and take off chunks of it. Mike thinks it is a
legitimate point
Bill Sargis suggested putting bumpers on those areas to protect the stucco.
Buz Reynolds noted the 18 foot high retaining wall on the site.
Rhoda Schneiderman reminded Mike Matzko to put the trash enclosures on the next
agenda.
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Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
Other Business (Con.'t)
Mike Matzko stated that the Community Development Department is less than at an
optimal performance and a lot of transition is going on. This is the first meeting we are
fully staffed. Mike would like to start with other big issues.
Rhoda Schneiderman understands but knowing the history of this particular building and
how long things take to get done Rhoda does not want this to drag out to the point where
T.J. Conner gets other improvements and later comes up with this major argument that it
is now a major hardship to take care of the trash enclosures.
Rhoda also commented on the Commissions and Staffs treatment of the Hotel applicant at
the June 6, 1995 meeting. A green light was given at the conceptual and than did a 180%
turnaround without any notice.
2. Frustration with current guidelines. Must be used until we have a better tool.
3. Bill Sargis called attention to the long agenda. At what point can staff cut off the
agenda. Jack Hunn suggested having a special meeting for larger agendas.
4. Rhoda Schneiderman questioned the trash enclosures for T.J. Conners site. Rhoda
requested to staff to have that brought back to the next agenda for trash enclosures.
Mike suggested bringing it back later.
5. Rhoda Schneiderman need a requirement as missing a meeting one need to listen to
entire tape.
6. Rhoda Schneiderman was surprised by the treatment of the applicant at the hotel
presentation.
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Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
June 20, 1995
ADJOURNMENT
Meeting adjourned at 10:30 PM.
Respectfully submitted,
Sheila Kremski
Recording Secretary
Commission Approval
B. Sargis
S. Railton
R. Schnei
A. Reyno
B. Stanley
H. Vest
J. Hunn
Date
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