PZC Minutes 040296Record of Proceedings
Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996
Regular Meeting
The regular meeting of the Town of Avon Planning and Zoning Commission was called
to order by Chairperson Jack Hunn at 7:00 p.m., April 2, 1996, in the Council Chambers,
Avon Municipal Building, 400 Benchmark Road, Avon, Colorado. All members were
present except Commissioner Stanley.
Members Present: Jack Hunn
Sue Railton
Buz Reynolds, Jr.
Rhoda Schneiderman
Henry Vest
Staff Present: Karen Griffith, Town Planner
Jacquie Halburnt, Recording Secretary
George Harrison, Assistant Planner
Steve Hodges, Community Service Officer
Mike Matzko, Director of Community Development
Additions and Amendments to the Agenda
Karen Griffith stated Staff had two additions to "Other Business", the first was Lot 3,
Nottingham Station, discussion of colors and secondly, Lot 10, Block 4, Wildridge, the
McDonald residence, confirmation of colors and modification of one color.
Conflicts of Interest
None
Consent Agenda
The following items were scheduled on the Consent Agenda:
A. Approval of the March 5, 1996 Meeting Minutes
B. Approval of the March 19, 1996 Meeting Minutes
C. Lot 38, Block 2, Benchmark at Beaver Creek Subdivision; Borg Duplex
Project type: Satisfaction of Conditions of Approval - Colored Elevations
Owner/Applicant: Bob Borg
Address: 0220 West Beaver Creek Boulevard
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 2
D. Lot 24, Block 2, Benchmark at Beaver Creek
Street Address: 0150 E. Beaver Creek Blvd.
Project Type: Conditions of Approval, Landscape & Streetscape Plans
Owner: Tim Garton and Kim Peterson
Applicant: Jerry Dokken, Dokken Architects
Address: 0150 East Beaver Creek Blvd.
George Harrison explained the Consent Agenda as approval of the March 5th and March
19th meeting minutes, colored elevations of the Borg Residence, Lot 38, Block 2,
Benchmark at Beaver Creek, and Lot 24, Block 2, Benchmark at Beaver Creek, Avon
Plaza's landscape and streetscape plans.
Commissioner Schneiderman asked if the applicant was present for the Lot 24, Block 2,
Benchmark at Beaver Creek project. No one was present.
Commissioner Schneiderman stated that with the walkway in front of the building and
parking right up to the walkway, cars would have their front ends hanging over into the
walkway, essentially creating no walkway. Mr. Harrison stated that there were metal
poles along every parking space on the site plan to avoid such a problem. She said that
she thought most of the spaces could be moved across the aisle, giving room for
landscape and an effective walkway. Chairperson Hunn stated perhaps the item should
be pulled off the consent agenda so they could discuss it further in "Other Business".
Commissioner Schneiderman suggested pulling it off and tabling it because discussion
would be pointless if the applicant was not there.
Chairperson Hunn pointed out several changes to the March 19th meeting minutes, they
were as follows: Page 3, 4th paragraph, 2nd sentence, should say "unbroken", not "and
broken"; Page 4, 2nd paragraph, last sentence, should say "in that modular matter", not
"the that modular manner"; Page 8, last paragraph, 2nd to last sentence, should say
"parget" not "parched"; Page 10, 3rd paragraph from the bottom, should say
"controversial", not "commercial"; same paragraph, last sentence, should say "blend with
its surroundings"; Page 11, 5th paragraph, 4th sentence from bottom of paragraph, add
the word "up" between "taking" and "space"; page 12, 2nd paragraph, 4th sentence,
"near" needed to be inserted before "pocket" and finally, Karen Griffith was referred to as
Mr. Griffith.
Motion
Commissioner Schneiderman made a motion to approve the Consent Agenda with items
A, B, C and the recommended minute changes, while removing item D. Seconded by
Commissioner Railton and the motion carried unanimously.
Commissioner Schneiderman made a second motion to table item D, Lot 24, Block 2,
Benchmark at Beaver Creek subdivision.
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 3
George Harrison stated that they could still discuss it in "Other Business" if necessary.
Seconded by Commissioner Vest and the motion carried unanimously.
Final Design Review
A. Lot 85, Block 1, Wildridge Subdivision; Sage Villas
Project Type: Residential, four-plex
Owner: Cary Builders
Applicant: Eric Johnson, Architect
Street Address: 2436 Draw Spur
George Harrison explained the project. He stated the Commission saw the project at the
March 19th meeting and tabled it. He said the applicant had incorporated many of the
changes recommended by the Commission. He stated that the Staff memo outlined the six
recommendations and how the applicant addressed them.
Mr. Eric Johnson presented the project. He stated the exact cut sheet on the down light
was not given to George in advance and he handed it out to the Commission. He said the
light fixtures were on the two end units outside the doors. He continued that the grading
plan had been clarified with spot elevations at the driveway to show how the drainage
swales worked.
Mr. Harrison stated the grading and drainage were still being reviewed, but from the
initial review it appeared the grading would work. He said that they had not gotten a final
sign -off from the Town Engineer. Mr. Johnson stated they upped the caliper of the
Aspen and Cherry trees to 2", they added three spruce trees along the back and side, and
took out 10 Aspens. He presented the roof color and an alternative siding color. He
stated the trim color was Chrome green. He stated they shifted the planting and snow
storage areas to keep them protected, added a 3x3 dining room window, and extended the
roofs on the upper overhangs.
The Commission all agreed on the selected colors.
Commissioner Reynolds stated he was concerned with the material they used because it
was not a fully wrapped masonite product and he had seen problems with it in the past.
He said it had not held up because the back of it had a tendency to absorb moisture on
certain parts of the house and it then delaminated the wood. He referenced the Harrison
project as an example of the product failure. Commissioner Schneiderman stated the
Harrison project had been a nightmare and they could not get paint to stick.
Mr. Bob Borchardt stated he had built approximately 300 houses in the last 15 years, had
used the product for 15 years, and had never had a call back on it. Commissioner
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 4
Reynolds stated it could be because of the way Mr. Borchardt did it and he just wanted to
point out that the project the Commission had approved did not work and everything was
going to have to be replaced on all four buildings.
Mr. Borchardt stated he did not know of any material that one could use in Colorado on
the exterior that did not need something done to it in 4 or 5 years. He said he used this
product because the paint adhered to it so well.
Commissioner Reynolds stated he wanted to point out that from what he had seen, as one
Commissioner, that the fully wrapped masonite product worked better.
Mr. Borchardt suggested he could use a vapor barrier. He stated he normally did not
apply a vapor barrier and had used the product in Silverthorne.
Chairperson Hunn stated it was up to the builder to build the project how he wanted to,
but the Commission had seen a negative experience with the product and they needed to
pass that information on to him.
Motion
Commissioner Vest made a motion to approve the residential four-plex for Lot 85, Block
1, Wildridge Subdivision. Seconded by Commissioner Railton.
Further Discussion
Commissioner Schneiderman asked Commissioner Vest to amend his motion to include
that the Commission strongly recommended that the applicant used a fully wrapped
masonite product.
Commissioner Reynolds stated that he was sure as an experienced builder, the applicant
would put the product up correctly and perhaps other builders had done it incorrectly.
Mr. Borchardt stated that insulation was very important with this product and if nails
penetrated the surface and broke the seal, there would be problems. He continued that if
the product was applied properly, which would be nailing it by hand and not using a gun
that would penetrate the seal, there shouldn't be any problems. Mr. Borchardt also
pointed out that the product had a 20 year warranty. Commissioner Schneiderman stated
it was a recommendation, not a condition.
Commissioner Vest amended his motion to include a strong recommendation to use a
fully wrapped masonite product, the second concurred and the motion carried
unanimously with Commissioner Reynolds abstaining because he was not at the previous
meeting when the project was originally presented.
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 5
B. Lot 15, Block 4, Wildridge Subdivision; Finley Residence
Project Type: Remodel to add bedrooms and upgrade exterior design
Owner/Applicant: Amy and Steve Finley
Consultant: Jim Bryan, Architect
Property Address: 5684 E. Wildridge Road
Karen Griffith explained the project. She stated the owners had 5 bedrooms and were
proposing to add 3 additional bedrooms, 2 additional bathrooms, remodel the kitchen, and
it included a den and loft. She stated it was a second home and the additions were
proposed to accommodate family members when they visited. Ms. Griffith stated Staff
thought the exterior modifications were an improvement and upgrade. She stated that the
project met all design review criteria; however, Staff was a little concerned about the
number of bedroom and the potential of traffic and noise to the neighbors. She said Staff
wanted to get 2 additional parking spaces added to the lot, perhaps grass crete because the
residence was not used that much during the year. She said they wanted to relocate their
2 fireplaces, which was okay with Staff, but they could not add any more. Ms. Griffith
noted that the 2 fireplaces were put in before the Town of Avon had their one fireplace
rule. Finally, she said the percentage of lot coverage was not listed on the map.
Mr. Jim Bryan presented the project. He said the owner was a professional baseball
player, was busy from February through October and only came here during Christmas.
He said they tried to keep the addition to the back of the house and unify it with some
elevation treatments.
Commissioner Railton said she thought it was a great improvement. She asked how
many people were there when the family got together. Mr. Bryan said maybe 4 or 5, but
everyone was from out of Town and they spent a lot of time going back and forth to the
airport. Commissioner Railton asked if they had planned on repaving or coating the
driveway because it was all cracked up. He said he hadn't planned on it, but could
specify it. Mr. Bryan said they currently had 6 parking spots and had planned on adding
2 more for a total of eight.
Commissioner Schneiderman asked where the back space would be added for
snowmobiles. Mr. Bryan pointed it out on the north elevation as a horizontal sided door.
Commissioner Schneiderman said the house looked great; however, she was concerned
with the type of treatment on the chimneys. She said they were wood burning and would
be charcoal. She said they would need to be painted every year because of the soot. She
stated she thought the stone trim around the house would look good on the chimneys.
Commissioner Reynolds said his only concern was the parking. He asked if the
turnaround parking held two full cars. Mr. Bryan stated it was 20 feet wide and would
accommodate two cars. Commissioner Reynolds stated that the turnaround was used for
snow storage this year and could not accommodate 2 cars. Mr. Bryan said he could
inform the owners that they would have to keep it fully plowed.
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 6
Commissioner Railton asked where the big trailer would go. Mr. Bryan said it would fit
in the garage.
Chairperson Hunn stated he also thought it was a great improvement. He said the
lighting on the home was a series of spotlights which cast glare onto neighboring
properties and asked if it would be replaced. Mr. Bryan responded that he would be
putting the soffits into the ceiling of the porch and would be also changing the fixture in
the yard. Chairperson Hunn asked about the existing deck. Mr. Bryan said they were
removing it and replacing it with a new deck that would be at the lower level off of the
living room. Chairperson Hunn asked how close to grade the jacuzzi would be. Mr.
Bryan said approximately 1-2 feet.
Motion
Commissioner Schneiderman made a motion to approve the remodel to add bedrooms
and upgrade exterior design to Lot 15, Block 4, Wildridge Subdivision with the following
conditions:
1. Staff recommendations
2. The chimney chases be of the same stone material as the trim of the building.
Seconded by Commissioner Reynolds and the motion carried unanimously.
C. Lot 61, Block 1, Wildridge Subdivision; Evans Residence
Project Type: Single Family Residential
Owner/Applicants: Chris and Michele Evans
Property Address: 2365 Fox Lane
Karen Griffith explained the project. She stated it was a 2400 square foot home utilizing
cedar board and batten siding with stucco and log rail decks. She said the project did
comply with the zoning code. Ms. Griffith stated that the applicants did not have their
final cut sheet for lighting selected at this time, so they added notes on the site plan that
there would not be any off site glare problems. Staff also recommended that they
approve the light fixtures at time of building permit. Staff also recommended the two
spruce trees on the north elevation that are close together be separated and one moved by
the garage for screening. Finally, Staff recommended 10 additional shrubs be added to the
north side of the lot for more visual interest.
Commissioner Schneiderman verified that they proposed 5 Aspen trees and 4 Colorado
blue spruce trees and nothing else. Mr. Chris Evans stated the entire lot was covered with
Aspens. Commissioner Schneiderman pointed out that the front of the lot was not
covered with Aspens.
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 7
Ms. Michele Evans presented the project. She passed around a massing model for the
Commission. She stated their lot was covered with Aspens and their main concern was to
save as many of the trees as they could. She said the location of the house was
determined by the trees. She stated it was a steep lot and they worked with the Town
Engineer to come to a reasonable solution. Ms. Evans said she had no problem with the
Staff recommendations and asked that they be able to submit their final light cut sheet
before they pick up their permit, not before they submit for it. She said she wanted some
time to research before she made a decision. Ms. Griffith stated it was fine with her.
Chairperson Hunn asked if the applicants had talked to the utility company to determine
if they would read the meters in the locations they designated. Ms. Evans said they had
not, but would do so. Chairperson Hunn stated if they did move them, Staff could
determine if it should go before the Commission for approval. Chairperson Hunn asked
if they stepped the stucco bays on the west elevation to follow the concrete steps. Ms.
Evans stated they did that so they did not have as much exposure.
Commissioner Reynolds stated the bottom portion of the lot had a lot of trees and when
they moved out the lines, they would lose a lot of them. Ms. Evans pointed out on the
plans where the trees were that would be lost.
Commissioner Vest mentioned the center stucco entryway feature. He stated he thought a
thick wood belly band between the two elevations would look good. Ms. Evans stated
her design concept was to make the center section different and would be willing to look
at something like he mentioned. She stated she thought the elevation didn't look good in
the drawing because one couldn't see the landscape in the walkway. Commissioner Vest
verified the ceilings were 8'. He asked if they had considered anything for the steep pitch
of 8:12 above the garage door. She stated they had thought about snow guards, which
they could add. Commissioner Reynolds suggested a dormer as an option.
Commissioner Railton asked if the windows were true divided windows or simulated
divided windows. Ms. Evans stated they were simulated. Commissioner Railton asked
what type of finish would be used on the siding. Ms. Evans stated it would be natural and
they were currently investigating the ramifications of not putting a sealer on it initially so
they could get a weathered look and then put a sealer on in a year. She stated worst case
scenario would be to put the sealant on now and have a cedar house. Mr. Chris Evans
stated that any water stains would be removed prior to sealing.
Commissioner Schneiderman said there were semi -transparent stains that would give a
grey look. Ms. Evans stated it was a uniform grey look and not the weathered look she
was trying to achieve. Commissioner Schneiderman stated it was an interesting looking
house, but she was concerned with the lack of landscaping along the driveway. Mr.
Evans stated that they would put in more landscaping as money permitted. He stated they
put in enough right now to meet the requirements of the Commission.
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 8
Commissioner Schneiderman asked if any of the trees they were removing could be
transplanted. Ms. Evans stated if they could, they would transplant. Mr. Evans stated he
talked to Precision Tree Works in Avon to see if the current Aspens would grow any
taller and they did not think they would; therefore, Mr. Evans stated he preferred to put in
new trees that were not genetically mutated. Commissioner Schneiderman stated she
understood where they were coming from, but did not think it was fair to hold them to
less of a standard than other people who had come in to Commission.
Commissioner Reynolds stated the applicants' lot was one of the most treed lots in
Wildridge. He stated they had done an extensive amount of work just to get the house
onto the steep lot and they were replacing most of the trees they were taking out of the
ground. He also pointed out the lot was at a dead end next to Hazards. He stated he
thought if they were putting shrubbery and natural grasses back in, it was a lot more than
some people in Wildridge had done to their entries. Karen Griffith suggested putting in
shrubbery instead of trees.
Commissioner Schneiderman asked if they would have an irrigation system. Ms. Evans
stated they would have a temporary irrigation system. Mr. Evans described it as a
temporary drip line to the trees so they can take hold and once they had taken hold, the
system would be removed.
Commissioner Schneiderman stated she did not think that would work and asked the rest
of the Commission their opinions. Commissioner Reynolds stated he used a temporary
irrigation system and now waters them about twice a week. Ms. Evans stated she would
be watering her trees and would not let them die after having the expense of putting them
there.
Commissioner Railton stated she thought they needed a good erosion material on the
bank between the garage and the driveway and below the driveway, or it would just wash
down into the road. Ms. Evans stated there were fences on the plan to avoid that.
Commissioner Railton said with the excavation and driveway, it would make a mess on
the streetside of the lot. She also stated there was no point in having a million trees in
your backyard and none in your front yard because it doesn't do anything for it.
Ms. Evans said she had spent a lot of time in Wildridge and there were not that many
homes that even had Aspens on them and was uncertain why they were being held to that
standard. Commissioner Railton suggested to pick something suitable to the area, but to
please landscape it.
Chairperson Hurn stated the applicants had a landscaping solution that was concentrated
on one side of the home. He stated he thought Staff's suggestions were an adequate
solution. He also stated people think by not having an irrigation system, they will save
money on water. He stated there were studies that suggested that automatic systems
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 9
helped reduce water consumption and the water restrictions in Wildridge made it pretty
impractical to water an entire lawn by hand
Commission's recommendations to heart.
Motion
He asked that the applicants should take the
Commissioner Schneiderman made a motion to approve the single family residence for
Lot 61, Block 1, Wildridge Subdivision with the following conditions:
1. Staff recommendations
2. Staff recommendation #2 be amended to read 12 shrubs, with an additional 5 trees
that meet minimum Town standards be placed below and above the driveway
along the driveway. Seconded by Commissioner Railton and the motion carried
unanimously.
D. Lot 25, Block 3, Wildridge Subdivision; Fox Residence
Project Type: Single Family Residence
Owners/Applicants: Tee & Lynn Fox
Property Address: 4280 West Wildridge Road
Karen Griffith explained the project. She stated the project met code and Staff was
recommending approval with one condition, that the minimum plant size for the spruce
trees be changed on the plans from 6" to 6'.
The applicant, Mr. Tee Fox, was present to answer questions.
Commissioner Railton said her only concern was that the roof material looked too dark.
Commissioner Schneiderman asked if the dotted line on the landscape plan was the line
of excavation. Mr. Fox stated, yes, it was the line of disturbance. Commissioner
Schneiderman noted the plan showed revegetation with native grasses and drought
resistant grass mix. She asked if the drought resistant grass mix was native grass. He
stated they would use whatever type of grass would work. Commissioner Schneiderman
said any kind would take as long as they watered it and she didn't care which kind they
used as long as it was consistent.
Commissioner Railton asked if he would have an irrigation system. Mr. Fox stated yes.
Commissioner Schneiderman stated she thought it was a very cute house. She stated she
thought he should lighten the roof color and that it could be approved by Staff.
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 10
Commissioner Vest asked if the garage door was the same color as the siding. Mr. Fox
stated the garage door would actually have the siding on it. Commissioner Vest verified
he was using divided windows.
Commissioner Reynolds stated his only comment was to lighten the roof.
Commissioner Vest verified he had a direct vent to the side of the house for the gas
fireplace, the bathrooms lined up and there would only be a few protrusions through the
roof.
Commissioner Schneiderman asked if Commission needed to see a light fixture cut sheet.
Karen Griffith stated Staff could review them at time of building permit if Commission
preferred. Commissioner Schneiderman asked if there were only light fixtures on either
side of the garage and above the deck. Chairperson Hunn pointed out all of the fixtures
and Commissioner Schneiderman stated she thought there were a lot. She also stated the
exposed bulb on the back of the house was not allowed. Mr. Fox said they could take it
out.
There was a lot of discussion on lighting and Ms. Griffith asked Commission to make
their decision clear in the motion.
Chairperson Hunn stated the chimney mass projecting from the house did not present
itself as a chimney below the roof and asked how they would return the mass to the home.
Mr. Bud O'Hallaran, general contractor, stated it would be on a platform. Chairperson
Hunn stated it was unfortunate that the mass was not carried to the ground.
He also stated that most of the Commission members had commented favorable on the
color pallet, but he thought it was a cold pallet of colors in an otherwise warm
environment. He also agreed the roof was too dark.
1L• •1:
Commissioner Schneiderman made a motion to approve the single family residence for
Lot 25, Block 3, Wildridge Subdivision with the following conditions:
1. Staff recommendations.
2. The garage doors be sided and painted to match the body of the building.
3. A lighter colored roof material be chosen with Staff approval.
4. On the west elevation, the center light will remain, the end lights will be replaced
with two in soffit spots.
5. On the east elevation, the twin spotlights will be placed under the roof
overhang.
6. On the west elevation, the garage lights will be replaced by a twin spotlight placed
under the deck members.
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 11
Seconded by Commissioner Reynolds and the motion carried unanimously.
Public Hearing
A. Lot 25, Block 4, Wildridge Subdivision; Fowler Residence
Project Type: Front yard building setback variance
Owners/Applicants: Jeffrey & Therese Fowler
Consultant: John Perkins
Address: 5571 Coyote Ridge
Chairperson Hunn stated that the applicant had requested to withdraw their application;
however, it was posted as a Public Hearing.
Chairperson Hunn opened the public hearing. Mr. Vaghn Speck, Lot 27, Block 4, WR,
was present. He stated he really didn't know what the notice was all about and had come
to the meeting to find out and understand how the meeting worked.
George Harrison stated that the applicants had requested to Table the project based on the
comments the applicants had gotten back from the Commission at the Concept Review
meeting. He said they wanted to incorporate some of the comments they had received
from Staff and the Commission and would bring the project back for final design and the
15' variance. Mr. Speck asked why the applicants were requesting the variance. Mr.
Harrison stated the steepness of the lot sloped away from the road and as they moved the
house farther down the hill, it was more difficult for them to construct a driveway that
was not too steep. Mr. Harrison stated that he thought that most of the Commission was
generally in favor of the variance. Chairperson Hunn stated that similar type variances
had been requested and granted in the past for similar reasons.
George Harrison stated he had also received a letter from a concerned neighbor, Mr.
James Wiley. Commissioner Reynolds asked what property Mr. Wiley owned and Mr.
Harrison stated he did not identify that. Commissioner Reynolds stated that letter writers
should always identify which property they own within the 300'. Chairperson Hunn
stated Mr. Wiley owned Lot 23.
Chairperson Hunn asked what the next procedure was and if another public hearing
would be given. Mr. Harrison stated another public hearing notice would not be issued.
Commissioner Schneiderman stated Mr. Wiley brought up some valid points, like the
shadows from the second story that would be cast onto the road. Mr. Harrison said it was
20' from building to pavement. Mr. Harrison stated as the application stood, Staff was
not in support of the 2nd story on the 3rd bay. He said Staff thought there would not be
as great of an impact on the streetscape by having a single story on the third bay. Mr.
Harrison said the applicants had to be careful about imposing trees in the 10 foot snow
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 12
easement because Public Works was concerned about putting that type of vegetation
there. Mr. Harrison stated the first 10 foot of the property was the right of way and the
2nd 10 foot was for snow easement. Commissioner Schneiderman stated she had three
evergreens on her property that she was almost sure were in the 10 foot snow easement
and they were never affected by plowed snow.
Chairperson Hunn stated the caution was that if by granting the variance that landscaping
would be precluded by recommendation of the Town Engineer, it would play in the
Commission's decision. Commissioner Schneiderman suggested that Staff needed
determined if the Town Engineer had a problem with all landscaping or certain types of
landscaping. Chairperson Hunn pointed out that the home was too tall. Chairperson
Hunn closed the Public Hearing.
Commissioner Railton made a motion to table the front yard building setback variance for
Lot 25, Block 4, Wildridge Subdivision. Seconded by Commissioner Schneiderman and
the motion carried unanimously.
B. Lots 1 & 2, Wildwood Resort Subdivision; Colorado Alpine Nursery
Project Type: PUD Admendment to allow temporary sale and storage of
nursery stock and gardening materials
Property Owner: Oscar Tang, Tanavon Corp.
Property Address: 110 & 120 Buck Creek Road
Karen Griffith explained the project. She said the application was an amendment to the
PUD and that Planning and Zoning Commission's role was to make a recommendation to
the Town Council on how to proceed. She said the application was for seasonal nursery
sales and plant and material storage on the site. She said they were requesting plant sales
for one season, through October of 1996, while they were requesting the storage of
nursery stock and materials through October of 1997. Ms. Griffith stated they were
building another site in Eagle County that had been delayed so they were desperately
needing another site for this season. Ms. Griffith said the Staff was recommending denial
based on the information outlined in the Staff memo.
Commissioner Vest asked if the road to the Public Works facility was gravel. Ms.
Griffith said it was and he raised a good point that it was gravel under gravel and an
inaccuracy in the Staff report.
Mr. Marty Jones presented the project. He said he understood that Staff was doing its job
and following rules and regulations, but it was a very temporary situation. He said they
had hoped to be open in Edwards by the end of the month, but because of the parcel they
were dealing with, there were some complex legal issues. Mr. Jones said the county and
its land use plan basically zoned them out of business because it was not economically
feasible to put a garden center on commercial real estate. He stated they sought Lots 1 &2
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 13
because there was above ground water on the site for irrigation and they could use a
temporary construction office like they did on the Christmas tree lot. He said it would be
very similarly to what was approved for their Christmas tree lot. Mr. Jones continued
that he thought the greenhouses, trees, plants, and shrubs would be an asset rather than a
detriment to what was there now.
Public Hearing
Chairperson Hunn opened the Public Hearing. Seeing no one to comment, Chairperson
Hunn closed the Public Hearing.
Commissioner Reynolds stated if the project went through, he would like to see a
retention system because the stream to the left was part of the Town of Avon's water
supply. Mr. Jones clarified that the retention system would be used to prevent water from
flowing back into the stream. Commissioner Reynolds stated they would be using
fertilizer on their products and he was concerned with that. Mr. Jones stated that the
topography of the site was such that the water would flow toward Pizza Hut and away
from the stream. Mr. Jones stated that part of their business was to address
environmental concerns and they had an image to uphold, so he did not think there would
be any problems.
Commissioner Reynolds stated that he did not have any problems with the facility
because it was temporary for one year, but if they wanted to go a few more years after
this year, they would need to show a permanent facility. Mr. Jones said that was not their
intent and the owner of the property had his own plans for it. He stated they had already
thoroughly developed their plans with the County and were waiting for a signature. He
said by the time they resubdivided, rezoned, got a building permit, a highway access
permit and got the structure up it would be October at the earliest.
Mr. Jones said they would provide gravel parking. Commissioner Reynolds asked Mr.
Jones if they were allowed to tap off of the surface water. Mr. Jones said to the best of
his knowledge the water rights belong to the owner, Oscar Tang. Commissioner
Reynolds said that he thought all water rights on the property were dedicated back to the
Town. Mr. Jones stated that he knew it was an issue that had come up during the
Mountain Star project and he believed that they sought permission from Oscar Tang to
use the water. Ms. Griffith stated that she would research who had the water rights.
Commissioner Vest stated he would not want to see the greenhouses past October of
1996. Mr. Jones said that they would have to come down because of snow and there
would be no heat. Mr. Jones also said that it was just the trees on Lot 2 that he requested
to keep on site until October of 1997. CommissionerNest said one of the shade
structures was close to the bend that goes back to the Public Works facility and asked
where the water would go when he watered his plants. Mr. Jones said they tried to
manage their watering so there was a minimum of runoff, but obviously there would be
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 14
some runoff. Commissioner Vest pointed out that the lot is basically dirt and a little
gravel and there was not any grass to hold the moisture. Mr. Jones said the area was
vegetated very well. Commissioner Vest stated that particularly in the industrial
commercial zoned areas, the Commission wanted the applicants to throw gravel on the
driveways during the construction of the lot because of mud problems. He said he
thought it would be bad enough with the Town of Avon buses coming out of the area.
Mr. Jones said that it was a retail operation and he did not want his customers walking
around in the mud. Commissioner Vest asked what the times of operation were and Mr.
Jones responded 8 a.m. to 5:30 or 6 p.m., so they would not need lighting. Commissioner
Schneiderman asked about lighting for security purposes. He said that they would
possibly use lighting and a motion detector on the trailer. He said in the past they had
very little security problems and no problems with deer that would necessitate a fence.
Commissioner Vest asked where signage would be located. Mr. Jones said the 4' square
sign was dark green plywood and pointed out where it would be located.
Commissioner Schneiderman said she could see a garden center there, but she couldn't
see them doing it without some landscaping to shield some of the buildings. She said it
could be of a temporary nature whether it be mounding up some of the plant material and
just not selling it over the winter or whatever. She asked if there was a reason why the
two long buildings were not placed 90 degrees so they were going back on the site and all
that would be seen from the front were the short ends. Mr. Jones said for two reasons, 1.
The north -south aspect was best for the plants, and 2. The traffic coming up the road
under the overpass would be looking straight at the ends. He continued that they could
attempt to store trees on site because it was in their best interest to make the site
attractive. Commissioner Schneiderman said either way they would need some plant
material around the edges to shield the buildings. She said whatever they used, she did
not want to see the landscaping gone by midseason because they sold them. She said she
was also concerned that by extending the storage use to October of 1997, people would
think it was a freebie parking lot, like they have already. Mr. Jones said the Town of
Avon used the area for storage and at that point, miscellaneous refrigerators, etc.. showed
up there. Commissioner Schneiderman asked if they only needed to store plant material
for Mountain Star. Mr. Jones said no, it was just because they had no place else to go.
Commissioner Schneiderman stated they could move the temporary facility down and
then go to the new facility in October. Mr. Jones said yes and no, it was a lot easier said
than done. He said a problem would be relocating that much material. He continued that
his plan was to vacate Lot 1 at the end of the season. He said they were looking for an
alternate site for storage because their 1 acre lot in Edwards was not big enough. He said
they were looking for an additional site farther down valley to store trees. He said they
had something lined up and had the rug pulled out from underneath them.
Comissioner Railton stated she would hate to not see Mr. Jones around this summer and
was in favor of the project. She stated she thought as long as they condensed it as much
as possible, kept it neat and tidy, and made it look as good as they could it would be
okay. Mr. Jones said the office would be the same trailer they used for Christmas tree
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 15
sales. He said they would probably move it closer to the parking area by extending the
electric service. Commissioner Railton asked how the shade structure was made. Mr.
Jones stated it was basically poles with fabric over them, very similar to what they had at
the Garden Center in Eagle -Vail.
Commissioner Schneiderman asked Staff how they felt about a condition of approval
with landscape requirements. Karen Griffith said Staff could work with the applicant on
a landscape plan or Commission could give a condition that the landscape plan come
back. She said given the temporary nature of the project, she would feel comfortable
either way. Mr. Jones said it would be difficult to come back with a temporary landscape
plan and asked that they be aware that their goal in this business was to display their
products in an attractive way.
Ms. Griffith stated it sounded like the Commission was leaning toward approval and she
thought Steve Hodges's recommendation of a bond to cover the clean up in the end was a
good recommendation. Mr. Jones asked how much the bond would be and he pointed out
that with the exception of a few posts frozen in the ground, they took care of the
Christmas tree lot in a timely fashion. He said the trees that were there were brought in
by the public. Steve Hodges stated it could be letter of credit, cash bond, or escrow. Mr.
Hodges stated that other communities that don't require an exact amount for the clean up
require $2,000.00.
Ms. Griffith also asked Commission to consider a condition that the west edge of the
parking lot be defined so vehicles were not everywhere.
Chairperson Hunn asked if there was a culvert under Swift Gulch Road. Ms. Griffith said
she was not sure. Mr. Jones stated that he knew they took one out, but he thought they
had put it back. He said there was an asphalt apron there that was probably 8 inches
higher than the road. Chairperson Hunn suggested a culvert, a swale, some surface
treatment at the base of the heavily irrigated area, and magnesium chloride for dust
control. He also suggested as a civic contribution, that once they were done with their
use this summer, they could volunteer to scarify it, revegetate it, and cut a deep swale
along Swift Gulch Road to prevent access to it. Mr. Jones said he had no problem
revegetating it, but would want to get permission from the owner to cut a swale or place
boulders on it. Mr. Jones also mentioned that truckers use the area to park, go to C -Mart
to make phone calls or Pizza Hut for lunch and he thought the Town needed to address it.
Mr. Jones stated he thought by inhibiting the parking, they were fixing one problem, but
creating another. Karen Griffith stated she would want to check with Norm Wood on the
grading issue and directing water toward the road.
Mr. Jones said Ms. Griffith made a comment that summed everything up when he
approached her for Christmas tree sales and the comment was that the Town really did
not have any provisions for temporary uses.
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 16
Steve Hodges said that the landscape material should be of a permanent or left up to Mr.
Jones's discretion because it would a constant battle to count trees everyday.
Motion
Commissioner Schneiderman made a motion to recommend approval of the PUD
amendment to allow temporary sale and storage of nursery stock and gardening materials
for Lots 1 & 2, Wildwood Resort Subdivision with the following conditions:
A clean-up bond, that can be a letter of credit, of $2,000.00 be issued to the Town
of Avon prior to construction.
2. The applicant undertake to use temporary plant material in a permanent way for
the full 5 month duration of the project on the west and south sides of the
greenhouses.
Commissioner Schneiderman stated that she based the recommendation of approval on
the fact that it is a project of a temporary nature, as is the Swift Gulch project, and that
normal PUD criteria do not apply.
Seconded by Commissioner Railton.
Further Discussion
Chairperson Hunn asked that the following conditions also be included:
3. Drainage should be to the Town Engineer's satisfaction.
4. There will be dust control (magnesium chloride was highly recommended).
5. The western southwestern edge of the public parking area be defined so that there
is a limit as to how much of the site they can park on.
Commissioner Schneiderman added the following condition:
6. Strong recommendation that the applicant, at the time of departure, revegetate the
site as well as do some sort of temporary blocking of access to the site, in
coordination with the Town, to keep it private property.
Seconded by Commissioner Railton and the motion carried unanimously.
Other Business
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 17
Regarding Avon Crossing, Lot 3, Avon Crossing, Karen Griffith stated the Commission
recommended that the colors be changed to Cape Town green for the building, with
Army green and brigade trim, to be alternated on buildings.
Commissioner Schneiderman made a motion to approve the color change for Lot 3,
Nottingham Station subdivision with the following condition:
1. Site review and approval by members of the board.
2. The decks and railings will be a natural redwood.
3. The posts on the deck will be the trim color.
3. Garage door color to be determined after site visit.
Seconded by Commissioner Railton and the motion carried unanimously with
Chairperson Hunn abstaining.
Regarding Lot 10, Block 4, Wildridge, the McDonald residence, Ms. Griffith stated they
wanted to confirm their colors with one change. She stated the stucco was a little bit
darker grey than what was approved, but she thought the color was preferable. She stated
the only color that was being changed was the window railing, which they all saw earlier
in the meeting.
Commissioner Schneiderman made a motion to approve the color change for Lot 10,
Block 4, Wildridge. Seconded by Commissioner Railton and it carried unanimously.
Chairperson Hunn stated that Swift Gulch road was a cloud of dust and he highly
recommended magnesium chloride. Commissioner Reynolds stated he recommended
paving it.
Chairperson Hunn asked what the current attitude was in Wildridge regarding dog
control. He said he had heard if one's dog was running loose, a warning would be issued,
sometimes a second warning, and sometimes the dog goes to the pound, and sometimes
the dog was brought home.
Mr. Steve Hodges stated his policy was if the animal was out running by itself, a citation
was issued; however, if the owner was with the animal, a written warning would be
given. If the animal was behaving as if was on a leash, but the leash was absent, a verbal
warning would be given.
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 18
Chairperson Hunn stated he had observed that each morning about 7 a.m., the same dogs
were out on the same streets and one owner, in his bathrobe, always looks to see how far
they ran away that morning.
Mr. Hodges stated his schedule was rotated and his early shift started with him driving on
every street in Town and if he was not there the second the dog was out, he would not
observe the violation. He said if he was working late, the last thing he did was drive on
every street.
Commissioner Schneiderman asked if someone called Mr. Hodges and said that an hour
ago he saw a dog run across his lot - was that enough to site someone? He stated that a
witness had to be complainant. He stated if it was not necessary to take the animal to the
shelter, he did not do so.
Chairperson Hunn suggested to Staff that if there were changes to the normally scheduled
times for the meetings that a phone call would help to point it out to the Commissioners.
Commissioner Schneiderman said she was having a hard time with the packets. George
Harrison stated that staff would indicate which tab the information was under on the
agenda.
Karen Griffith asked the Commission if the site tours should be continued. Several
Commissioners said they had a hard time making it by 5:00 p.m. Commissioner
Schneiderman stated that some were worth it. Commissioner Railton suggested that if
Staff was recommending denial, it might warrant a site tour.
Chairperson Hunn asked Staff if there was an update on the newspaper stands on private
property. Mike Matzko stated Staff was still working on it.
Chairperson Hunn asked Staff if there was an update about underutilitzed parking in the
Norwest Center. Karen stated that there was a note on the Condo map that any
unassigned parking should be available to the public, so Steve Hodges would be taking
action on it.
Chairperson Hunn asked about Chateau St. Claire. Mike Matzko stated it was a mixed
use project, but did not have residential condos. He said they were doing the plan review
now and Commission would be seeing it in a few weeks. Karen Griffith stated they had
to do a preliminary PUD. Chairperson Hunn asked if a traffic study would be required.
Ms. Griffith said she had not discussed it with the applicants. Chairperson Hunn said that
anyone exiting trying to travel west with the volume of traffic at the light, would have a
difficult time.
Commissioner Reynolds stated that the original approval of T.J. Connor's warehouse was
with a turnaround. He said the turnaround was now garbage storage. He said sometimes
Meeting Minutes
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 19
on a snowy morning, he has to wait ten minutes for a guy to put his chains on and he
thought it was silly to allow them to turnaround on the road. Steve Hodges agreed with
Commissioner Reynolds that Commission originally approved the turnaround, then
approved the garbage storage later. Chairperson Hunn stated that if Commission made an
error in approving the garbage storage, because the turnarounds were an important part of
the original approval, what opportunity did they have to make a change with the
dumpster? Commission asked Staff to check out the situation. Chairperson Hunn asked
if there were any other outstanding issues that would prevent a C.O.? Commissioner
Schneiderman mentioned the dumpster roof. Steve Hodges said he would bring the
conditions of approval to the next meeting.
Commissioner Schneiderman said she thought it was discouraging that only the written
record of the meetings could be used, not the tapes, when slip ups happened. Mike
Matzko said it was a common practice. Commissioner Schneiderman stated the common
practice did not work for them.
Chairperson Hunn stated he thought the problem all started with incomplete drawings, the
Commission tries to fill in the gaps, the motion has conditions, and then there were
misinterpretations.
Ms. Griffith stated that when Staff recommends denial and then Commission approves
the project, she thought they should consider tabling to give Staff a chance to research it
and give them a complete list of conditions. She stated in those cases, they reviewed it as
denial and did not have a back up list of conditions for approval.
Chairperson Hunn mentioned Lot 25, Block 4, Wildridge, from the Concept Review
agenda, and said that it appeared that it was not a hardship and the reason for the variance
was to create a third car garage. Commissioner Schneiderman stated that she thought it
was an asset. Chairperson Hunn agreed, but wondered if it was enough of an asset to
grant a variance. He suggested they could put a shed roof on it, brought the roof mass
down, kicked in a small dormer to get a window out of the bedroom, they could do a
more sensitive job of lowering the mass as it came back down to the road.
Commissioner Reynolds stated that Lot 15, Block 4, Wildridge was more than 2400
square feet. He stated it was over 3,000 sq. ft. now. Karen Griffith stated that
Commission members should feel free to mention those types of errors during the
meetings.
Commissioner Reynolds stated for 5,000 sq. ft., he would have parking for 12 cars.
Commissioner Schneiderman stated it was for 6 cars and by today's standards, that was
legitimate. She also mentioned that she thought they needed new standards. She stated
what concerned her was that if he ever sold the house, there would be a lot of people
living there. Karen Griffith mentioned that not more than 4 unrelated adults could live in
Meeting Mir.ULeS
April 2, 1996 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Page 20
one unit per Town of Avon standards, but it was hard to enforce because if the people
were related, it did not apply.
Adjournment
Commissioner Reynolds made a motion to adjourn the meeting. It was seconded by
Commissioner Schneiderman and the meeting adjourned at 10:25 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Jacqueline Halburnt
Recording Secretary
R. Schneiderman
B. Stanley
H. Vest �-